Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Penalty Turns in VERY Shifty winds

Peter Clapp
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Race Officer In Training
  • Judge In Training
So, this came up today in our Remote Control fleet while sailing in some very shifty winds.

One boat attempting to do his one-turn penalty could not get the boat to jibe, even after turning a full 360 degrees.

The other boat, was sailing in a straight line and completed both a tack and a jibe.

One is still trying to complete his penalty turn, while the other is on his merry way having not really been penalized.

Does this just turn out to be just a matter of good luck/bad luck for each of them?
Created: 22-Apr-21 00:44

Comments

Thomas Armstrong
Nationality: Chile
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
0
If the wind is doing 360 shifts then you should not be racing - I would say condtions are not goot for fair racing.

That said, and to your question: yes - bad luck!
Created: 22-Apr-21 01:17
Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
0
Agree about luck. However, if the tack and jibe result in an advantage vs a victim boat, then additional penalty turn(s) are required in radio sailing.
DSQ in real sailing. Bad luck then for the auto tacker!
Created: 22-Apr-21 02:45
Christian Hartmann
Nationality: Germany
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
0
both have to be DSQ. one did not jibe, the other did no turn (when sailing just in a straight line).
Created: 22-Apr-21 04:02
Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
1
Ouch! Quite so!
44.3 the required number of turns in the same direction, each including one tack and one gybe
Created: 22-Apr-21 04:53
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Christian Hartmann
Said Created: Yesterday 04:02
both have to be DSQ. one did not jibe, the other did no turn (when sailing just in a straight line).

Philip Hubbell
Said Created: Yesterday 04:53
Quite so!
44.3 the required number of turns in the same direction, each including one tack and one gybe


I'd just point out that for this to go anywhere, there has to be a valid protest, and the protest committee has to conclude that the boat has broken a rule and is not exonerated.

Despite the OP saying that the second boat sailed in a straight line, I'd be inclined to the presumption that she did change course.

I might ask her "Did you change course to initiate your tack/gybe?", or perhaps non-leadingly, "What action did you take to initiate...?", and unless they stick their head in the noose by saying "Nothing,  I just kept sailing in a straight line", I'd accept their evidence that they did turn.

Philip Hubbell
Said Created: Yesterday 02:45
Agree about luck. However, if the tack and jibe result in an advantage vs a victim boat, then additional penalty turn(s) are required in radio sailing.

I think you've slipped a cog in applying the exception rule.

Rule 44.1(b), and the RC rule (which I'm sure its devotees think is "real sailing ") E4.3 (1) (shown below) refer to the boat having " gained a significant advantage in the race or series by her breach "

That is, the significant advantage has to have been gained by the underlying incident (and not been taken away by the penalty), not that an advantage was gained by taking the penalty.

So a protest committee not only has to conclude that the boat broke a rule in the underlying incident, but that she gained a significant advantage by that breach. 

DSQ in real sailing

The mechanism isn't so different between RC Sailing and Fleet racing.  The protest committee will be disqualifying the boat because she has not taken an "applicable penalty" under rule 64.2(a), under either rule set.

What rule E4.3(1) does is change the specification of the "applicable penalty".


E4.3. Taking a Penalty
Rule 44.1 is changed to:
A boat may take a One-Turn Penalty when she may have broken one or more rules of Part 2, or rule 31, in an incident while racing. However, 
  1. when she may have broken a rule of Part 2 and rule 31 in the same incident she need not take the penalty for breaking rule 31;
  2. if the boat gained an advantage in the heat or race by her breach despite taking a penalty, her penalty shall be additional One-Turn Penalties until her advantage is lost; 
  3. if the boat caused serious damage, or as a result of breaking a rule of Part 2 she caused another boat to become disabled and retire, her penalty shall be to retire. 

Created: 22-Apr-22 08:31
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