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Interpretation for definition of "sailing the course", and rule 28.
Chuck Linn
Nationality: United States
0
Hi all, An odd rules discussion has come up and I would like to seek the wisdom of this forum. This never resulted in a protest, etc - but we would be interested in knowing how to act in the future when similar situations come up.
For the purpose of this discussion, the course is a triangle, with marks L (leeward, also a starting and downwind finishing mark), W (windward mark) and J (jibe) mark. For the purposes of this discussion, lets assume the course to be sailed is a simple triangle, starting a L, then W, then J, finish at L, all marks left to port. Many boats correctly sailed this course exactly as stated.
However, one boat, due to the wind direction at the time instead first sailed to J, rounded and left it to port, then back to L, rounded it to port. At this point he realized all other boats had sailed instead to W for their first mark, and proceeded then to sail to W, J, and finish at L. No marks were "unwound". Overall, his course was L (start), J, L, W, J, L (finish).
How should he be scored? Did he sail the marks in proper order (this seems the most salient disputed question in applying the definition of sailing the course? Does he have to do any unwinding?
Thanks to all, Chuck
Created: 22-Aug-01 21:48
Comments
Rick Shousha
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
Club Race Officer
0
It seems to me she has sailed the course properly. Those first roundings simply add a loop in an otherwise correct sailing of the course. During the "loop" the marks are not considered marks of the course as they do not " begin, bound or end the leg she is sailing". I would simply score her normally.
Created: 22-Aug-01 22:13
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
Club Race Officer
National Judge
National Umpire
0
He should be scored in his finishing position. There is no problem with the course sailed and no unwinding is required. Just because he went around some things floating in the water that were or will be marks on some past or future leg is irrelevant. In the course he sailed he eventually went from the (start) L to W, then to J, then to L, rounding each on the proper side.
On the first leg he was sailing from (start) L to W. The mark J is just some random thing floating in the water as it is not a part of that leg. If he were to hit it, he would not break rule 31. However, L is a mark bounding that first leg, so if he hit it either while starting or passing it the second time, that would break rule 31 and a penalty turn would be required.
The next leg is from W to J and that is what he sailed, no problem. And if he decided first to go to L on that leg for some reason, no problem. He can even hit it since it isn't a mark of the leg he is on.
Created: 22-Aug-01 22:16
Carl Schellbach
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
National Race Officer
0
I got a good laugh out of this, as it has happened on a race course of mine, sorta. The Case book has two cases (90 and 106) that basically say that what a boat did before she left the marks on the proper side in the proper order, or after, is irrelevant (as John and Rick arrive at above). That she did comply with the course description at some point between starting and finishing is the determining factor.
Yep, we had a long discussion about this, did the whole string rule model and everything. We still get a good giggle about that!
Best, -- Carl
Created: 22-Aug-01 22:23
Robert Austin-LaFrance
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
Club Race Officer
Regional Judge
0
If they crossed the finish line within the time limit (if there was one) score them as they finished. What they may have done before sailing the course properly is immaterial, except of course for the added distance. And kudos to them for realizing their mistake and persevering anyway!
Created: 22-Aug-02 01:18
Chuck Linn
Nationality: United States
0
Thank you all for your expertise and insight. It is very helpful, consistent, and in this case - even matches what intuition says should happen in this situation. It was the explicit, exact phrase from the definition "and in the correct order" that intuition said had to be effectively overruled in rule 28 that had thrown us.
Again, appreciated all!
Created: 22-Aug-02 15:11
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
Regional Judge
Fleet Measurer
1
Chuck, it's interesting to realize that the boat in question could have messed-up their "sail-the-course-string" if they had gone back through the starting line from the course-side between #8-#9 and either rounded the pin to starboard or the RC to port.
In both of those cases, they would have unwound their crossing of the starting line and the string would fail the test when pulled taut, as the string would then lay outside the starting line.
PS: the reason above is true is because the rounding of mark 2 @ #5-#6 doesn’t “hold” the string when pulled taut. Since mark 2 isn’t a mark that bounds the first leg of the course, the string “pulls right thru” mark 2 like it’s not even there.
On the first leg he was sailing from (start) L to W. The mark J is just some random thing floating in the water as it is not a part of that leg. If he were to hit it, he would not break rule 31. However, L is a mark bounding that first leg, so if he hit it either while starting or passing it the second time, that would break rule 31 and a penalty turn would be required.
The next leg is from W to J and that is what he sailed, no problem. And if he decided first to go to L on that leg for some reason, no problem. He can even hit it since it isn't a mark of the leg he is on.
Yep, we had a long discussion about this, did the whole string rule model and everything. We still get a good giggle about that!
Best,
-- Carl
Again, appreciated all!
In both of those cases, they would have unwound their crossing of the starting line and the string would fail the test when pulled taut, as the string would then lay outside the starting line.
PS: the reason above is true is because the rounding of mark 2 @ #5-#6 doesn’t “hold” the string when pulled taut. Since mark 2 isn’t a mark that bounds the first leg of the course, the string “pulls right thru” mark 2 like it’s not even there.