Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Black flag start issue

John Ball
Nationality: Canada
This is a hypothetical question for Radio Sailing and Appendix E.

Black flag 30.4 is in effect. 
Just before the start, boats are luffing sails close to the start line. a windward boat drifts into a leeward boat and while they are rafted together, both boats' bows cross the start line. The RC hails both boats over.

The RC scores both boats as BFD, however Leeward immediately protests windward, and returns to the prestart side of the line, starts and sails the course. RC protests Leeward for BFD and not clearing the course. Leeward protests Windward and claims exoneration from 30.4 under 43.1(a) and 43.2. and so was entitled to start and sail the course and be awarded her finish position

How does the PC rule?

So one question is given that windward drifted into leeward, breaking R 11, and before they could separate, they both drifted over the start line, breaking R30.4, was leeward compelled to break R30.4 by windward's breach? Leeward could have avoided being over early if W had not drifted into her.

The second question is does R 43.1(a) apply? And if yes, then 43.2 would apply and exonerate Leeward from breaking R30.4. But to get a finish position, and as redress is not available here, L would have to protest W,  ignore the Black Flag call, and come back and start correctly and sail the course. Can Leeward do that?

Note that Appendix E adds 'disabled' as an additional ground for redress, but it is accepted that two boats rafted together are not disabled, as they can sail clear by action of wind on sails, and rudder action. So there is no redress.

John

Created: 22-Sep-13 23:27

Comments

P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
See case 140

I'm not sure how, at what was presumably a windward start, a leeward boat is compelled to cross the starting line by a windward boat not keeping clear, and the protest committee needs to conclude that L was compelled to cross the starting line for rule 43.1(a) to apply.

'Not clearing the course' is going to require a special SI, and the outcome may depend on the wording of the SI.  See Case 140 Q and A 2 for the logic that will apply.
Created: 22-Sep-14 00:33
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
0
Case 140 is definitely helpful in understanding the options.  However, the OP states that this is RC sailing and Appendix E applies.  E7 requires that a boat identified that has broken rule 30.3 or 30.4 to leave the course area.  Not leaving the course area would be similar to sailing in a restarted race.  E7 does not contain the language that 30.3 and 30.4 do regarding disqualification without a hearing so if L returned, sailed the course, and finished she should be protested by the RC.  The PC should then disqualify her.
Created: 22-Sep-14 00:53
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Thanks for the reference to Appendix E.

John Christman
Said Created: Today 00:53
...  if L returned, sailed the course, and finished she should be protested by the RC. ..

Why?

Case 39
 
Sportsmanship and the RulesRule 60.2(a), Right to Protest; Right to Request Redress or Rule 69 Action
A race committee is not required to protest a boat. The primary responsibility for enforcing the rules lies with the competitors
Created: 22-Sep-14 01:23
John Ball
Nationality: Canada
0
John Allan asks above how two boats rafted together could move to windward and cross a start line.

Here is a short video of the start of an IOM heat at a world championship starting about 20 seconds before the gun. This is quite typical of starting technique as these boats accelerate so quickly.

https://youtu.be/UzWSEa42RF0?t=48

As you will see, IOMs creep forward quite easily even with sails luffing. We use the sails and rudder to hold position. So if another boat falls down on you, it can be hard to control what the two boats do.

My sense of the arguments presented so far is that Case 140 applies, and leeward is exonerated from breaking R30.4, and so the Appendix E comment about leaving the area is nullified. 

John

Created: 22-Sep-14 03:47
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
John B,

I didn't ask how it could happen that boats could drift across the starting line.  I can think of plenty of ways.

I asked how it coudl be said that a windward boat not keeping clear compelled a leeward boat to cross the starting line.

I think that compelled requires quite a lot more than just 'making it hard to control'.
Created: 22-Sep-14 06:29
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
John Ball
said .Created: Today 03:47

My sense of the arguments presented so far is that Case 140 applies, and leeward is exonerated from breaking R30.4, and so the Appendix E comment about leaving the area is nullified. 

Here's RRS  E3.7. U Flag and Black Flag Rules
 
When the race committee informs a boat that she has broken rule 30.3 or 30.4 , the boat shall immediately leave the course area.

I think that just like the situation under rule 30.4 where the race committee displays a boats number before a restart, under RRS E3.7, the breach arises from noncompliance with that rule, and, as explained in Case 140 Q and A 2, whether the boat is exonerateds for breaking rule 30.4 is irrelevant.
Created: 22-Sep-14 06:39
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
1
Facts Found:

In a race sailed under Appendix E, Radio Sailing Rules, the race committee signalled that rule 30.4, Black Flag Rule applied.

W was overlapped to windward of L. Both boats were moving forward slowly with sails flogging.

W closed the gap with L and there was contact between the port side of W and the starboard side of L. The boats were not entangled but continued to sail forward slowly. L was unable to bear away.

Before the starting signal both boats were on the course side of the line.

The race committee informed both boats that they had broken rule 30.4.;

After the boats separate, L returns to the pre-start side of the starting line, crosses the start line and sails the course.

L protests W and claims that she is exonerated under rule 43.1.

 

Conclusions

W to windward failed to keep clear of L to leeward, and broke RRS 11.

In a start under RRS 30.4 a part of the hulls of both W and L were in the triangle formed by the ends of the starting line and the windward mark during the last minute before the starting signal. W and L broke RRS 30.4.

Since L was compelled to break RRS 30.4 as a consequence of Y breaking RRS 11, she is exonerated under RRS 43.1(a) for this breach.

When informed by the race committee that she had broken RRS 30.4 L did not immediately leave the course area and broke RRS E3.7.

Decision

W is disqualified for breaking rule 11.

L is exonerated under RRS 43.1(a). for breaking rule 30.4.

L is disqualified for breaking RRS E3.7.

 

Comment

If L had left the course area immediately after being informed that she had broken rule 30.4 the conclusion would be different (see Question 3 of WS Case 140:

The race committee made no improper action in informing L that she had broken RRS 30.4. There are no grounds for redress under RRS 62.1(a).

Since L is exonerated under RRS 43.1(a) the race committee is required to change her score from BFD to DNS. 

Created: 22-Sep-14 10:09
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