Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing
Black flag start issue
John Ball
Nationality: Canada
0
This is a hypothetical question for Radio Sailing and Appendix E.
Black flag 30.4 is in effect.
Just before the start, boats are luffing sails close to the start line. a windward boat drifts into a leeward boat and while they are rafted together, both boats' bows cross the start line. The RC hails both boats over.
The RC scores both boats as BFD, however Leeward immediately protests windward, and returns to the prestart side of the line, starts and sails the course. RC protests Leeward for BFD and not clearing the course. Leeward protests Windward and claims exoneration from 30.4 under 43.1(a) and 43.2. and so was entitled to start and sail the course and be awarded her finish position
How does the PC rule?
So one question is given that windward drifted into leeward, breaking R 11, and before they could separate, they both drifted over the start line, breaking R30.4, was leeward compelled to break R30.4 by windward's breach? Leeward could have avoided being over early if W had not drifted into her.
Black flag 30.4 is in effect.
Just before the start, boats are luffing sails close to the start line. a windward boat drifts into a leeward boat and while they are rafted together, both boats' bows cross the start line. The RC hails both boats over.
The RC scores both boats as BFD, however Leeward immediately protests windward, and returns to the prestart side of the line, starts and sails the course. RC protests Leeward for BFD and not clearing the course. Leeward protests Windward and claims exoneration from 30.4 under 43.1(a) and 43.2. and so was entitled to start and sail the course and be awarded her finish position
How does the PC rule?
So one question is given that windward drifted into leeward, breaking R 11, and before they could separate, they both drifted over the start line, breaking R30.4, was leeward compelled to break R30.4 by windward's breach? Leeward could have avoided being over early if W had not drifted into her.
The second question is does R 43.1(a) apply? And if yes, then 43.2 would apply and exonerate Leeward from breaking R30.4. But to get a finish position, and as redress is not available here, L would have to protest W, ignore the Black Flag call, and come back and start correctly and sail the course. Can Leeward do that?
Note that Appendix E adds 'disabled' as an additional ground for redress, but it is accepted that two boats rafted together are not disabled, as they can sail clear by action of wind on sails, and rudder action. So there is no redress.
Note that Appendix E adds 'disabled' as an additional ground for redress, but it is accepted that two boats rafted together are not disabled, as they can sail clear by action of wind on sails, and rudder action. So there is no redress.
John
Comments
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I'm not sure how, at what was presumably a windward start, a leeward boat is compelled to cross the starting line by a windward boat not keeping clear, and the protest committee needs to conclude that L was compelled to cross the starting line for rule 43.1(a) to apply.
'Not clearing the course' is going to require a special SI, and the outcome may depend on the wording of the SI. See Case 140 Q and A 2 for the logic that will apply.
John Christman
Why?
Case 39
Here is a short video of the start of an IOM heat at a world championship starting about 20 seconds before the gun. This is quite typical of starting technique as these boats accelerate so quickly.
https://youtu.be/UzWSEa42RF0?t=48
As you will see, IOMs creep forward quite easily even with sails luffing. We use the sails and rudder to hold position. So if another boat falls down on you, it can be hard to control what the two boats do.
My sense of the arguments presented so far is that Case 140 applies, and leeward is exonerated from breaking R30.4, and so the Appendix E comment about leaving the area is nullified.
John
I didn't ask how it could happen that boats could drift across the starting line. I can think of plenty of ways.
I asked how it coudl be said that a windward boat not keeping clear compelled a leeward boat to cross the starting line.
I think that compelled requires quite a lot more than just 'making it hard to control'.
Here's RRS E3.7. U Flag and Black Flag Rules
I think that just like the situation under rule 30.4 where the race committee displays a boats number before a restart, under RRS E3.7, the breach arises from noncompliance with that rule, and, as explained in Case 140 Q and A 2, whether the boat is exonerateds for breaking rule 30.4 is irrelevant.