Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing
When tacking port to startboard within the zone
Alan Chidsey
Nationality: United States
0
Hi All,
Rule 18.3. Passing Head to Wind in the Zone, states:
Rule 18.3. Passing Head to Wind in the Zone, states:
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If a boat in the zone of a mark to be left to port passes head to wind from port to starboard tack and is then fetching the mark, she shall not cause a boat that has been on starboard tack since entering the zone to sail above close-hauled to avoid contact and she shall give mark-room if that boat becomes overlapped inside her. When this rule applies between boats, rule 18.2 does not apply between them.
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I understand the basics of the rule, but have a question in the following scenario:
1. Boat B entered the zone of the windward mark on starboard.
2. I have tacked inside the zone from port to starboard leeward of boat B and we are overlapped.
3. Boat B overstood the layline enough that I am not forcing them to sail above close haul as we both go to the mark.
4. If Boat B goes directly at the mark, cutting off my path to leave the mark to port, and runs into me, what rule, if any, is Boat B breaking?
I don't believe I am technically inside boat as I didn't enter the zone on starboard so I can't claim mark room.
Can I call leeward boat and state that Boat B is not keeping clear of a leeward overlapped boat?
I don't believe I am breaking a rule as I am not forcing Boat B to sail above close haul.
Thanks,
Alan
>>>>
I understand the basics of the rule, but have a question in the following scenario:
1. Boat B entered the zone of the windward mark on starboard.
2. I have tacked inside the zone from port to starboard leeward of boat B and we are overlapped.
3. Boat B overstood the layline enough that I am not forcing them to sail above close haul as we both go to the mark.
4. If Boat B goes directly at the mark, cutting off my path to leave the mark to port, and runs into me, what rule, if any, is Boat B breaking?
I don't believe I am technically inside boat as I didn't enter the zone on starboard so I can't claim mark room.
Can I call leeward boat and state that Boat B is not keeping clear of a leeward overlapped boat?
I don't believe I am breaking a rule as I am not forcing Boat B to sail above close haul.
Thanks,
Alan
Comments
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You will be the inside boat all right, but this doesn't impose any obligation on you because when RRS 18.3 applies between boats, rule 18.2 does not apply between them.
From the initial question by AC, he gives the scenario that he is tacking inside the zone to round the mark, and therefore that is his "proper course", which infers he has to be tacking to sail his proper course, therefore R18 does not apply, he must give way to boat B as she has all the rights coming into the mark (on starboard).
I beleive this rule was introduced to stop barging at the mark and preserve the rights of the Starboard tack boat.
In your case B broke RRS 11 and should take a penalty.
B that and when the loat sails above a closehauled course or establishes an overlap to leeward?
A rewrite of the rule to clarify perhaps.
As Gordon say the windward boat has to keep clear, and as they have no mark room they cannot be exonerated.
However it is confusing because it refers to "that boat" and "her". Whenever they use those terms they cause confusion.
https://youtu.be/4emdfoTvNKk?t=471
Can I say in general we can use a kind of rules hierarchy and basic rules are first, and 18 in second place to give a lower 'right' of room on marks? Is that the general logic?
If that is correct, we can take the mark out, with exactly the same boats interaction and movement, and the analysis can become easier and then add the mark with 18 to see how the 'smaller right' for room aplies in adition.
I am not trying to make a rules interpretation but to find a method to easily go on the good path to read them.
Alan Chidsey
Glywn Rowlands
Glynn,
I think you are wrongly applying the notion of 'enduring' or 'persistence' conveyed by 'thereafter' in RRS 18.2(b) and RRS 18.2(c). That concept only applies to RRS 18.2.
The criteria of RRS 18.1 must be applied discretely moment by moment.
The starting point of OP scenario is Alan's boat (A) on port tack, and B on starboard tack both approaching the mark.
At this point you have correctly applied RRS 18.1(b) to conclude that RRS 18 does not apply.
A reaches the zone, still on port, B still on starboard. RRS 18 still does not apply.
A now passes head to wind in the zone: A and B are now both on starboard tack. Conditions (a) and (b) (opposite tacks) of RRS 18.1 no longer hold true and none of the other exception conditions of RRS 18.1 apply, A and B are both required to leave the mark on the same side, and one of them is in the zone,
Therefore RRS 18 now applies.
A has passed head to wind in the zone and is fetching the mark, and B has been on starboard tack since entering the zone.
Therefore RRS 18.3 applies and RRS 18.2 does not.
No rule requires a boat to sail in a seamanlike manner.
I think you are asking whether the other boat has broken a rule.
As Gordon has explained, A while on port tack, and after passing head to wind is required to keep clear of B by RRS 10 and RRS 13 until she reaches a close hauled course, and then may be required by RRS 15 initially to give B room to keep clear.
I don't think you're right.
It's not a question of 'sneaking in'. It's simply a question of complying with the rules.
Helpful cases are
About keeping clear Case 50, and about room Case 21
Rule 10 applies and starboard (B) has right of way.
Rule 18 does not apply and neither boat has mark-room.
When port (A) passes head-to-wind inside the zone:
A is now on starboard tack to leeward of B.
Rule 13 applies and A must keep clear of B.
Rule 18 also applies.
If A is fetching the mark:
Rule 18.3 applies and 18.2 does not apply. Neither boat has mark-room.
When A reaches a close-hauled course:
A acquires right of way.
Rule 11 applies and so does Rule 15.
B must keep clear of A, even if she must sail above close-hauled to do so. If B does have to sail above close-hauled to avoid A, then A breaks Rule 18.3
If A is not fetching the mark:
Rule 18.2(a) applies and 18.3 does not apply. Boat A is entitled to mark-room.
As A is leeward of B, mark-room does not include room to tack.
If A breaks rule 13 while sailing within the mark-room, she will be exonerated.
When A reaches a close-hauled course:
A acquires right of way.
Rule 11 applies and so does Rule 15.
If A breaks rule 15 while sailing within the mark-room, she will be exonerated.
B must keep clear of A.
Back in the 20th century we used to have a Basic Rule. That language was removed in the 1995 rewrite of the rules.
I'm a little uncomfortable with the word 'hierarchy'. All rules are created equal and no rule is more important than any other.
That said, rules often interact in a sequential way.
Part 2 Section A (rules 10 to 13) is Right-of-way Rules
Section B (rules 14 to 17) is General Limitations applicable to and around those Right-of-way Rules.
Section C (rules 18 to 20) is some more limitations and rules specifically At Marks and Obstructions, and
Section D (rules 21 to 23) are further special case rules.
Umpires use the following framework to apply rules that may help you in a short form
[R]ight of way
[R]oom
[O]bligations
[O]pportunity
In a longer form, I find this logical sequence useful in writing conclusions
The definition of fetching the mark is:
" Fetching A boat is fetching a mark when she is in a position to pass to windward of it and leave it on the required side without changing tack".
I'm not sure what that mark room would look like if A is not fetching the mark. I can't see how A could be within any of the elements of mark room as defined if she's not fetching the mark.
While A is sailing to the mark, she is sailing within the room she is entitled to by the definition Mark Room (a).
If A sails to the mark and then luffs head-to-wind in an attempt to pass the mark on the required side, she is still sailing within the mark room she is entitled to. If she causes B to luff above close-hauled, she will only break rule 18.3 if she successfully passes to windward of the mark on the required side. Otherwise, she would not have fetched the mark and Rule 18.3 would not apply.
Surely if she luffs head to wind she is in a position to pass to windward of the mark and leave it on the required side without changing tack. She simply doesn't have enough speed to make it. Similarly while tacking from port to starboard she is in a similar position whilst between HTW and CHC.
She only has to be in the position and that means pointing in a particular direction. In very light wind, she could be CHC on the starboard layline and still be unable to pass the mark due to lack of speed.
If it is not possible for a boat 'to pass to windward of [the mark] and leave it on the required side without changing tack' then she is not fetching
For heavy boats (metre classes being an example) this can be well below the layline if the have enough way on to shoot the mark.
Another point, in the example when the boat passes head to wind above, on or near the layline she is now fetching the mark. 18.2 switches off and 18.3 applies.
I am not convinced that 18.3 switches off, and 18.2 switches back on, if, subsequently, the boat can no longer fetch the mark.
If boats are initially on opposite tacks, how does rule 18.2 ever switch on?
I agree with your quandry about when (presumably as a result of a significant wind shift) a boat that was fetching is no longer fetching. Life was simpler when it was the other boat that had to be fetching. I think the RRC over simplified rule 18.3.
For me once 18.3 applies it continues to apply even if the boat cannot, subsequently fetch the mark.
Fetching is the same way .. so yea … a boat might be 10 BL’s from the mark above the layline and is fetching the mark .. but so what? … there aren’t any rules 10BL’s from the mark that use “fetching”. Fetching is used in rules that apply inside the zone .. so we are talking about a change of “fetching state” happening inside the zone .. which is a compressed period of time for a state-change.
If the tacking boat is not fetching the mark after she passes head to wind, rule 18.3 does not apply.
Boats are now on the same tack and at least one is in the zone. Rule 18.2 applies.
Boats were not overlapped, nor was one clear ahead when she reached the zone, so rule 18.2(b) does not apply. Rule 18.2(a) applies if boats are overlapped.
Assume the tacking boat (A) is overlapped inside the other boat (B). B is required to give A mark-room.
A is not fetching the mark: this necessarily implies that her proper course is to tack towards the starboard tack layline, not to sail close to the mark, so the mark-room to which she is entitled does not include room to sail to the mark. The room she is entitled to is 'room ... to leave a mark on the required side ... and ... room to round or pass the mark as necessary to sail the course without touching the mark.'
To do that she needs to tack. She is entitled to room to change course to windward until she passes head to wind, at which time boats will be on opposite tacks, and rule 18 will no longer apply.
So as long boats are overlapped, while A is changing course towards the wind Preparatory to tacking until she passes head to wind she is sailing within the mark-room to which she is entitled and is exonerated if she a rule of Section A of Part 2, rule 15, 16, or 31.
Once she passes head to wind she is exposed to rule 13, with no rule 15 protection.