Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Question about series scoring

Jim Archer
Nationality: United States
Appendix 'A' says that an NoR or SI for a series may provide for throwouts. I presume this means that if say 10 races are started and at least one boat finishes, the race is "scored" and therefore counts, and that a "score" can include a DNC. So if we do 10 races, and two throw outs, then a boat that started only 8 races can throw out two DNCs. Is that correct?

Next question, what if each race in a "series" has its own NoR and SI,  but there is none for the series? 

Created: 23-Sep-11 11:56

Comments

Graham Louth
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • Regional Umpire
  • International Judge
  • National Race Officer
3
Appendix 'A' says that an NoR or SI for a series may provide for throwouts. I presume this means that if say 10 races are started and at least one boat finishes, the race is "scored" and therefore counts, and that a "score" can include a DNC. So if we do 10 races, and two throw outs, then a boat that started only 8 races can throw out two DNCs. Is that correct?
Correct.
Next question, what if each race in a "series" has its own NoR and SI,  but there is none for the series?
If there isn't an NoR for the series there isn't a series!
Created: 23-Sep-11 12:18
Matthew Curtiss
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • Club Race Officer
0
Appendix 'A' says that an NoR or SI for a series may provide for throwouts. I presume this means that if say 10 races are started and at least one boat finishes, the race is "scored" and therefore counts, and that a "score" can include a DNC. So if we do 10 races, and two throw outs, then a boat that started only 8 races can throw out two DNCs. Is that correct?

RRS 90.3 explains it well.  I believe you're on the right track

Next question, what if each race in a "series" has its own NoR and SI,  but there is none for the series? 


I'd need to see the race docs in question.  Is it like a "circuit" where each race is organized by a different club and each race has its own NOR/SI?

Created: 23-Sep-11 12:18
Michael Moradzadeh
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
0
Matthew has it right. I've had to deal with this in some cases, where we are scoring the series, in part, on results from a race that has a different NOR. The answer we use is to be very explicit and say something like "a boat's result in race XXX will be included in series scoring".  Now, you need to think about whether that other race has the same participants, and whether you use their points system or whether you take times from that race and enter them into your own scoring. It's quite a chore in the name of inter-club compettition.
Created: 23-Sep-11 12:24
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Jim Archer
Said Created: Today 11:56

Appendix 'A' says that an NoR or SI for a series may provide for throwouts.

Appendix A doesn't say that at all.

Appendix A RRS A2.1 says

Each boat’s series score shall, subject to rule 90.3(b), be the total of her race scores excluding her worst score. However, the notice of race or sailing instructions may make a different arrangement ...

I presume this means that if say 10 races are started and at least one boat finishes, the race is "scored" and therefore counts

Yes, RRS 35

and that a "score" can include a DNC.

Yes

 So if we do 10 races, and two throw outs, then a boat that started only 8 races can throw out two DNCs. Is that correct?

Yes

Next question, what if each race in a "series" has its own NoR and SI,  but there is none for the series? 

Then you don't have a series?

RRS A1 says

The number of races scheduled and the number required to be completed to constitute a series shall be stated in the notice of race or sailing instructions.
Created: 23-Sep-11 12:27
Matthew Curtiss
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • Club Race Officer
0
the SORC has a decent "Notice of Series" document...which, if it was me, would have called it a "Notice of Circuit" or "Circuit Rules" document to be clear in what was being scored.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/62b8b53ddecd3441cbee091d/t/646e385d75f17f2ddeb1ef12/1684944989800/IITS-NOS.pdf
Created: 23-Sep-11 12:42
Chuck Goes
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
0
Do read the rules carefully. There is now a "catch" in Appendix A2.1, which John Allan pointed out. The default is 1 throw out in a series. You have 2 races and you get a throw out. You run 10 races and you have 1 throw out. Unless you change it in your NoR or SI. 

If you don't have some kind of document (bowing to Matthew Curtiss) which will govern your series, you don't have a series. In your Notice of ... or SI, you must spell out what constitutes your series. If you want more than 1 throw out or multiple ones at different levels, it has to be included. You may want to consider a different scoring system other than low score, which is the default. Especially when you are including multiple events in the series. I know of at least one club that has a long series and they use high-score.
Created: 23-Sep-12 00:24
Jim Archer
Nationality: United States
0
Thanks everyone, very helpful!
Created: 23-Sep-12 04:28
Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
0
Each boat’s series score shall, subject to rule 90.3(b), be the total of her race scores excluding her worst score. However, the notice of race or sailing instructions may make a different arrangement ...

So the ubiquitous, poorly conceived NOR or SI line, more or less like "One completed race constitutes a series" means nobody scores at all if only one race is completed.
Created: 23-Sep-14 17:32
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Chuck ere: “I know of at least one club that has a long series and they use high-score.”

Here in the Chesapeake Bay, the CBYRA (Ches Bay Yacht Racing Assoc) uses “High Point”, which allows for season long scoring across multiple events by MANY diff YC’s/OA’s.

Here is a description of how it works.

The above is the junior-Sailing version. Each class has their own HP series. For other big boats, the “bonus points” are allotted to distance races greater than 20 nm.

Here are the High Point rules for the J105 Class.
Created: 23-Sep-14 22:56
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Chuck Goes
said Created: Tue 00:24
There is now a "catch" in Appendix A2.1, which John Allan pointed out. The default is 1 throw out in a series. 

It's hardly a new 'catch'.

Exclusion of a boats' worst score has been in the scoring system since the RRS first introduced a scoring Appendix  in the RRS in 1969.
Created: 23-Sep-15 22:50
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