Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Room at Leeward Mark - Proper Course

Cliff Crowley
Nationality: United States
The following incident is not subject to a protest or proceeding. 

  1. Both boats on port tack heading to leeward mark which is easily fetched in a handicap fleet.
  2. Windward boat establishes an overlap from behind outside the circle and is on course directly for the mark.
  3. Leeward boat heads up driving windward boat above the layline
  4. Once inside the 3 boat circle, L lets W in to the mark.

All L accomplished was both boats losing time to the rest of the fleet. 
Must L sail a proper course to the mark once there was an overlap insdie the mark circle?
 
Created: 23-Sep-29 13:05

Comments

P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
1
Cliff, can you provide more geometry?  

  1. what direction is the mark to be rounded?
  2. Is this mark part of a leeward gate?

Ang
Created: 23-Sep-29 13:09
Charles Darley
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • Regional Umpire
3
To be pedantic, three boat length zone. 
Created: 23-Sep-29 13:35
Tad Gruchalla-Wesierski
Nationality: Canada
0
Also, which is the inside boat and which is the outside boat (specifying windward/leeward doesn't necessarily answer that question)?
Created: 23-Sep-29 13:39
Ewan McEwan
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
0
To be even more pedantic, the Zone is 3 hull lengths!
Created: 23-Sep-29 13:48
Cliff Crowley
Nationality: United States
0
Sorry for missing info
1. Both boats on port tack
2. Leeward mark ( not a gate) to be left to port
3. windward boat is the inside boat 
RULES.jpg 23 KB
 
Created: 23-Sep-29 13:55
Gijs Vlas
Nationality: Netherlands
1
IMHO - Leeward boat is allowed to head up since she was clear ahead - R17 does not apply, only applies if a boat from behind establishes overlap and wants to head up at its will. The one thing the leeward boat has to obey is to give the windward boat room for a rounding once they reach the zone (determined by the hull length of the Leeward boat with different handicap boats).
Created: 23-Sep-29 14:33
P
Christopher Walmsley
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Please clarify "when" the overlap was established with respect to the 3 BL zone.  ie. "the overlap was established before the first boat entered the zone", or "the overlap was established after the first boat entered the zone".  This determines if and how Rule18 (Mark Room) applies.
Created: 23-Sep-29 14:37
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
2
Cliff Crowley
Said Created: Today 13:05
The following incident is not subject to a protest or proceeding. 

  1. Both boats on port tack heading to leeward mark which is easily fetched in a handicap fleet.
  2. Windward boat establishes an overlap from behind outside the circle and is on course directly for the mark.
  3. Leeward boat heads up driving windward boat above the layline
  4. Once inside the 3 boat circle, L lets W in to the mark.

All L accomplished was both boats losing time to the rest of the fleet. 
Must L sail a proper course to the mark once there was an overlap insdie the mark circle?
 
Before the first of the boats reaches the zone, there is no proper course limitation on either boat and L may change course to windward, requiring W to keep clear of her (RRS 11), as long as she gives W room to keep clear (RRS 16.1).

Once the first of them reaches the zone while they are still overlapped, L, overlapped outside, must give W Mark-Room (RRS 18.2(b)).

Mark-Room is Room for a boat to leave a mark on the required side.
Also,
(a) room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it, and
(b) room to round or pass the mark as necessary to sail the course without touching the mark.

If L, on reaching the zone, promptly bears away to give W room to sail a direct corridor from where she is to a position close to the mark, L gives W Mark-Room.  L will need to sail a course to leeward of her proper course to the mark to do this.

What L may have been trying to do was, before reaching the zone, to luff W away from the zone so that when L bore away towards the mark she would become clear ahead and reach the zone clear ahead, thus herself gaining the entitlement to Mark-Room ((RRS 18.2(b)).
Created: 23-Sep-29 14:44
Cliff Crowley
Nationality: United States
0
W established overlap from behind before reaching 3 boat length circle 
Created: 23-Sep-29 15:02
Tad Gruchalla-Wesierski
Nationality: Canada
1
As an overlapped boat, to windward of L on the same tack, W has a right to mark room under Rule 18.2 and that only includes the right to make a seamanlike rounding (i.e. tight). L must let it do so and keep clear to allow it to do so, but as the right of way boat it need not do any more (so could sail between the seamanlike corridor and its proper course as well as beyond its proper course).  W must be allowed to round, however, with no luffing in the 3 hull length zone until past the mark.
Created: 23-Sep-29 15:28
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Tad Gruchalla-Wesierski
Said Created: Fri 15:28
As an overlapped boat, to windward of L on the same tack, W has a right to mark room under Rule 18.2 and that only includes the right to make a seamanlike rounding (i.e. tight).

Yes

 L must let it do so

Yes

 and keep clear to allow it to do so,

No. L is required to give mark-room.  L is the right-of-way boat and is not required to keep clear of W.

but as the right of way boat it need not do any more

Yes

(so could sail between the seamanlike corridor and its proper course as well as beyond its proper course).  W must be allowed to round, however, with no luffing in the 3 hull length zone until past the mark.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Luffing is not defined in the RRS.  What does it mean?
Created: 23-Oct-02 02:43
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