Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing
RRS vs "Beer can" racers
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Greg WilkinsCertifications:
- Club Race Officer
- Club Judge
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The are some clubs that go "racing" under colregs rather than the RRS. I think these are often called Beer can races.
What is the situation if one of these beer can races is going around a racing mark (laid by the national authority for the purpose of racing by affiliated clubs) at the same time as a boat really racing under the RRS? Can a boat racing under RRS assume that another is also under RRS because they are rounding a racing mark, flying a club pennant and for all practical purposes acting like a racing boat?
What if we actually know that the other club is a beer can racer, and has neither accepted the rules, nor has a safety audit nor insurance to cover racing? I assume we need to treat them with colregs and thus take early and substantial action if we are give way, and hold our speed and course if we are right of way etc.
But how does that work when the beer can racer contests a mark rounding? Colregs simply doesn't cover mark roundings as it only provides for avoiding collision and has no provisions to allow a boat to sail her course around an imaginary point that is marked by a buoy that is not a substantial obstruction ? Moreover what if the beer can racer actually acts like they are under the RRS by trying to establishing inside overlap etc.
Ideally boats under different rules can just stay well clear of each other, but you can't do that if they are rounding your marks! So any advice on interpreting the rules would be appreciated.
What is the situation if one of these beer can races is going around a racing mark (laid by the national authority for the purpose of racing by affiliated clubs) at the same time as a boat really racing under the RRS? Can a boat racing under RRS assume that another is also under RRS because they are rounding a racing mark, flying a club pennant and for all practical purposes acting like a racing boat?
What if we actually know that the other club is a beer can racer, and has neither accepted the rules, nor has a safety audit nor insurance to cover racing? I assume we need to treat them with colregs and thus take early and substantial action if we are give way, and hold our speed and course if we are right of way etc.
But how does that work when the beer can racer contests a mark rounding? Colregs simply doesn't cover mark roundings as it only provides for avoiding collision and has no provisions to allow a boat to sail her course around an imaginary point that is marked by a buoy that is not a substantial obstruction ? Moreover what if the beer can racer actually acts like they are under the RRS by trying to establishing inside overlap etc.
Ideally boats under different rules can just stay well clear of each other, but you can't do that if they are rounding your marks! So any advice on interpreting the rules would be appreciated.
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IMHO the Nat’l authority should have a “sit down” with these clubs and
tell[strongly suggest to] them they are not allowed to use these marks at the same time as other regattas that operate under the RRS. That this confusion (flying racing flags and rounding marks) is potentially dangerous and against the basic function of the RRS.PS: or require them to operate under the RRS as a condition of simultaneous use of the marks.
So, when you meet another boat who is racing, but not under the RRS, you have to follow the COLREGS. So do they. If they contest a mark rounding as if they are sailing under the RRS, you still have to follow the COLREGS. That is not ideal, but that's how it goes. I do think you could seek redress if your score was negatively impacted.
There ARE clubs who race "outside" the RRS, including one in Monterey County. It's at best rude to fail to coordinate your marine activity (race, rally, parade, treasure hunt) with another occupying the same space. I'm not sure I'd be completely supportive, at least here in US, of a club claiming some ownership of a patch of water by virtue of having dropped a mark. Civil conversation should be the order of the day.
There are a number of permutations that arise when one boat sailing under the RRS and the other is sailing under IRPCAS (COLREGS is the old name).
That the boats not racing under the RRS are using a national authority mark is one of the risks of putting something in the water. Someone will always try and get there fast. In our local pond, which has a large number of kayaks, paddle boats, and rented sailboats, our marks seem to have the gravitational pull equivalent to a black hole. We had to abandon one race because the mark was stuck under a paddle boat.
Second is if an event is organized outside of requirements of RRS, personally I would suggest they would have an tough time finding a certified official to be involved with such and event. The chances of a quality protest committee is slim and none. World Sailing Officials are prohibited from doing so. I am not sure about nationally certified officials but would suggest their MNA would not look kindly on their participation.
Last is WS Case 143:
When the organizing authority for an event is not an organization specified in rule 89.1, a party to a hearing does not have access to the appeal process.
Just my thoughts
It would take a bit of doing to get WS to list the COLREGS club as an "outlaw."
But perhaps bringing this to that club's attention might bring about desired change.
'Beer Can' races refers to what we, in Australia would call Twilight or Mid Week races. As others have said, being 'Beer Can' races does not imply that they are not conducted under the RRS.
Marks laid by the MNA do not get any sort of exclusive use treatment. Any boat is more or less allowed to sail around any mark or buoy on the water (with the possible exception of the little yellow ones around Garden Island Dockyard).
I think usually yes, unless it is known that that club does not race under the RRS.
With respect to boats that are not racing under the RRS, the Preamble to Part 2 of the RRS provides
When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not, she shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way rules.
If a boat racing under the RRS had an incident with a boat looking like it was under the RRS, but was not, and the boat under the RRS complied with the RRS, but not with IRPCAS, then in a protest it would be up to the protest committee to sort out which rules applied and, if appropriate penalise the RRS boat for breaking the Preamble.
As others have said, you just about can't race with boats in close proximity at starts and mark-roundings under IRPCAS.
As you may be aware in an adjudication of an alleged breach of IRPCAS, it will be usual to find that both vessels breached at least one IRPCAS rule and that liability will be apportioned, that is, there is no clear winner or loser.
On the other hand there is a clear demand, especially in small clubs, to offer the possibility of running more spontaneous racing. With people taking early retirement, working or studying from home, there are sailors who may wish to profit from an opportunity to run a race.
It is possible for clubs to take steps to ensure that such racing can be carried out under RRS.
2014 US Sailing Simple SI’s
Maybe add some basic entry info (maybe as simple as email boat name and skipper to an address) and turn it into a combo NoR/SI.
PS: such Clubs/RC’s on the water could have a print out of a QR code(s) on a piece of paper (linking to the NOR/SI and entry email) and new boats can signup on the spot (lots of free QR code generators).
What do you consider those 'minimal requirements' are?
Will a NOR, SI, or other document stating, as required by RRS J1.1(2) that that the event will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing suffice?
Have there been problems with identifying 'the event'?
Would a notice displayed at the club saying 'All racing at this club will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing' meet the requirement?
I’m going to start a thread … using the US Sailing simple SI as a starting point … so we can make a single combo NOR/SI that meets the min RRS standard as stated in the 2017 Appx J
The main items can be set out in a set of standard race documents applying to all club racing.
The club registration form for boats can include a sentence for the boat owner to agree that all club racing will be governed by the RRS.
Rules for club racing can include a procedure in which a a Whatsapp group administrator can announce details of any race - date, time, classes, course etc
Boats can declare intention to race via Whatsapp.
In the past I have participated in races in which the boats towed out and laid marks, and the start was used by a simplified gate start. This worked well.
The whole idea is that a race can be set up the evening before, requires no race committee (but for dinghies, safety cover needs to be organised) AND complies with RRS.
My local club uses such a gate start for informal cruiser passage races for the return voyage of 'away' weekends. Class captain appoints the pathfinder, does the countdown and can shorten course if necessary, all by VHF. We have been doing this for at least 15 years
By
See J1.2 (11). there needs to be an entry form saying 'I agree to be bound by the RRS and by all other rules that govern this event' or similar. This could be included in the club registration form for boats - saying 'I agree to be bound by the RRS and by all other rules that govern all club racing'
The key point is to have standard race documents covering all club racing, that includes details of individual races to be communicated by WhatsApp (or similar).This allows the club to schedule a full programme of club racing, but allows flexibility for more impromptu racing. This is far better than having to produce race documents for every race or series.
Do you read J1.2 such that if the RRS’s apply that J1.2(11) shall be included?
On the other hand we have had rogue boats participating in events without entering. In this case we have invoked RRS4.1 and judged them under RRS
I built this in about 5 min: Entry Form
I'd like to run the discussion below in this thread to avoid cluttering up your thread about the minimal documentation an OA might want.
John Allan
Gordon Davies
Gordon Davies
What Gordon is talking about are, I think, the requirements essential to the prudent management of racing by a club or other organising authority.
I suggest that, following Juno v Endeavour, the minimal requirements for the RRS to apply between boats is nothing more than an agreement between them. There is no fundamental requirement that this agreement should be in writing, unless and until there is some dispute about its existence or terms.
I suggest this actually happens whenever two boats go out for a training session.
If there is nothing more than an agreement between boats, there will, of course, be no Organising Authority, and some things in the RRS will not operate, for example:
I suggest that the actual function of the written undertaking to agree to be bound by The Racing Rules of Sailing referred to in RRS J1.2(11) is to form the basis of the principle that common agreements between entrants in a race and the Organising Authority constitute an agreement between the boats themselves, even though there may be no direct communication between them, as discussed in Satanita's Case.
I think you’ve covered it. We are talking about a sliding scale of serious and organization.
What I was getting at was how simple could we make it (now leveraging Appx S in the other thread) for a “club”, that wants to have some ‘fun’ races to host something where it is clear that the RRS applies. Trying to make it so simple that there is little excuse not to do this minimum thing.
As I showed now with Google Forms & Sheets and Gmail accounts freely available, it’s crazy simple to put together a web/mobile form for people to fill out.
On the other hand, if the NOR/SI detailed the information required for entry, instructed boats to email that info to a specified address, and in the NOR had the “by entering i this event, you agree … “ statement .., maybe that’s something between a handshake and an acknowledgement on a form. All this just to accumulate those things which are “easy” and make spontaneity possible.
I certainly agree that without a NOR you don't have an Organising Authority, at least.
I'll get around to commenting in the other thread.
I think it's important to design the scheme and choose the electronic platform before worrying too much about NOR/SI. RaceQs would probably have gone a long way to doing the job but sadly its no longer with us.
As to boats expressly saying in writing that they agree to be bound by the RRS, I think that's important, see the last paragraph of my previous post about common agreements between boats and the OA forming an agreement between the boats without any direct communication between them. I don't think a 'by entering you agree' does the job there. But if you're making Google Docs forms you can pretty easily put the standard words in.
thanks for your responses.
Sorry to conflate the "beer can" race tag with the "non-RRS" races that I was actually concerned with. I do keep my beer and racing separate, so sorry to those that do manage to have a beer under the RRS.
Your responses have confirmed my belief that a) we should treat these boats under the colregs no matter how they behave; b) there is no good way to round a mark under colregs so best to just keep well clear (not italics) of them.
thanks
- a one -off race which requires appropriate race documents and a specific entry procedure
- a club that is already running regular club races that wishes to occasionally run some additional races organised in a short time.
My remarks concern the the second scenario. I maintain that a club can write in to their existing race documents rules that provide for this. All boats registered with the club can then take part. Once this is done all that is required is a WhatsApp group. My local club has had such provision, used frequently by our cruiser fleet, for many years.
Gordon Davies
I agree that a once a year document with agreement to be bound by the RRS will work.
Well, if you have SI, then you must have had a race committee to publish them.
The WhatsApp group admin is effectively the Sailing Administrator for the race, hence a member of the race committee.
Using a rabbit start, then I suggest that the skipper of the rabbit is the RO of the day.
Do I correctly presume that there is no notion of series pointscore?
How do you handle results? Possibilities I can imagine are:
I'm aware of self-managing competitions for example a squash ladder, so it doesn't seem too problematic.
Does the club regard provision of safety craft as essential? How is this coordinated?
If you have to have safety craft, why shouldn't one of them be a RCV?
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