Forum: Share your SI/NOR language.

Simple Combo NOR/SI Addendum Template Leveraging Appx S

P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
The purpose of this thread is to create a single, simple NOR/SI template that would be easy for “casual clubs” to use to create race docs for their event that meets the minimum requirements as stated in the 2021-2024 RRS Appx J

I think US Sailings 2014 Simple SI is a good place to start. 

Notice of Race & Sailing Instructions

{Name of Event}
{Dates of Event}
{Location of Event}

Rules
The regatta will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing.

Entries
Competitors may enter by delivering a completed entry form [and paying the {amount} entry fee] to {place} before {time} on {date}.  [Competitors may enter by emailing the boats name, class/rating and owners name to {email address}]

Classes
This event is open to the following classes of boats: {list classes}

Notices to Competitors
Notices to competitors will be posted on the official notice board located {describe where}.

Signals Made Ashore
Signals made ashore will be displayed from the flagpole located {describe where}. If a postponement is signaled ashore, the warning signal will be made not less than {time period} after flag AP is lowered.

Schedule and Class Flags
[A competitors’ meeting will be held at {time, date, place}.] The warning signal[s] for the first race will be [at {time}] [as follows: {date},{time}; {date},{time}; … ]. Subsequent races [each day] will be held as soon as practicable after the end of the previous race. The class flag[s] [is][are] {describe}.

Racing Area
The racing area will be {describe where}.

Courses and Marks
The course[s] will be {describe course[s]}. [{If more than one course} The course will be designated by {describe method, e.g. a black letter on a white board}]. All marks will be {describe}. [The attached diagram shows the courses, course designations, the marks in order and the rounding direction of each mark.]

Starting and Finishing Lines
The starting and finishing lines will be between {describe}. [The Sound Signal Starting System in Appendix S of the racing rules will be used.]

Time Limit
The time limit for each race will be {specify time limit} for the first boat to finish.

Protests
Protests shall be delivered to {place} within {time} after the race committee finish boat docks. The protest time limit and a list of protests received will be posted on the notice board. Hearings will be held as soon as practicable after racing each day in {place}.

Scoring
{Number} races are scheduled. [All scores will count.] [If at least {number} races are completed, each boat’s worst score will be excluded from her series score.] One race constitutes a series

Penalties
[Appendix V applies (1 turn and after race penalties)] or [RRS 44.3 Scoring Penalties applies]

Created: 23-Sep-30 14:36

Comments

Tim Hohmann
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Judge
1
I’d add Penalties since it seems like most casual races make changes such as specifying a one turn penalty in lieu of a two turns penalty or invoking some form of arbitration to reduce the need for hearings.
Created: 23-Sep-30 14:52
Kett Cummins
Nationality: United States
0
I don't know if this meets the criteria of "simple", but our club publishes a "General Notice and Sailing Instructions" each year for club racing.

Link HERE

Created: 23-Sep-30 15:05
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Kett, I was hoping for a single page.

As people give me suggestions below, I’ll make edits here:

Notice of Race & Sailing Instructions

{Name of Event}
{Dates of Event}
{Location of Event}
{Host Club/Organization}

1 Rules
The regatta will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing.

2 Entries
Competitors may enter by delivering a completed entry form [and paying the {amount} entry fee] to {place} before {time} on {date}.  [Competitors may enter by emailing the boats name, class/rating and owners name to {email address}]

3 Classes
This event is open to the following classes of boats: {list classes}

4 Notices to Competitors
Notices to competitors will be posted on the official notice board located {describe where}.

5 Signals Made Ashore
Signals made ashore will be displayed from the flagpole located {describe where}. If a postponement is signaled ashore, the warning signal will be made not less than {time period} after flag AP is lowered.

6 Schedule and Class Flags
[A competitors’ meeting will be held at {time, date, place}.] The warning signal[s] for the first race will be [at {time}] [as follows: {date},{time}; {date},{time}; … ]. Subsequent races [each day] will be held as soon as practicable after the end of the previous race. The class flag[s] [is][are] {describe}.

7 Racing Area
The racing area will be {describe where}.

8 Courses and Marks
The course[s] will be {describe course[s]}. [{If more than one course} The course will be designated by {describe method, e.g. a black letter on a white board}]. All marks will be {describe}. [The attached diagram shows the courses, course designations, the marks in order and the rounding direction of each mark.]

9 Starting and Finishing Lines
The starting and finishing lines will be between {describe}. [The Sound Signal Starting System in Appendix S of the racing rules will be used.]

10 Time Limit
The time limit for each race will be {specify time limit} for the first boat to finish.

11 Protests
Protests shall be delivered to {place} within {time} after the race committee finish boat docks. The protest time limit and a list of protests received will be posted on the notice board. Hearings will be held as soon as practicable after racing each day in {place}.

12 Scoring
{Number} races are scheduled. [All scores will count.] [If at least {number} races are completed, each boat’s worst score will be excluded from her series score.] One race constitutes a series

13 Penalties
[Appendix V applies (1 turn and after race penalties)] or [RRS 44.3 Scoring Penalties applies]
Created: 23-Sep-30 15:46
Tom Shenstone
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Club Race Officer
0
I'm all for more templates but what is wrong with Appendix S?  I actually have a w/l generic supplement for it that I use.  
Created: 23-Sep-30 16:19
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
1
Tom … yes . OK … good call . so maybe we look at the min NOR required to leverage Appx S?

Can u post a link to your supplement?  Maybe we focus on the NoR and Supplement.  Maybe combine the NOR and SI Supplement into one?
Created: 23-Sep-30 16:32
Tom Shenstone
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Club Race Officer
0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cuiknot7pl20k02oydfrh/Generic-Std-SSI-Ver-1.docx?rlkey=gl63mdkt6zbytznp5pp2n95m5&dl=0
Created: 23-Sep-30 17:06
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Tom, can you try to relink the webpage?  Use the link tool next to the strikeout in the edit toolbar. 
Created: 23-Sep-30 21:29
P
Tom Björkholm
Nationality: Sweden
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Umpire
  • National Judge
0
On mac OmniGraffle is a great tool for sketches like the course diagram: https://www.omnigroup.com/omnigraffle
On windows Microsoft Visio is a similar tool.
For a free tool you could try that was previously called draw.io: https://app.diagrams.net/
Created: 23-Oct-01 04:56
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
 Angelo Guarino
Said Created: Sat 14:36
The purpose of this thread is to create a single, simple NOR/SI template that would be easy for “casual clubs” to use to create race docs for their event that meets the minimum requirements as stated in the 2021-2024 RRS Appx J

I think US Sailings 2014 Simple SI is a good place to start. 

Kett Cummins
Said Created: Sat 15:05
I don't know if this meets the criteria of "simple", but our club publishes a "General Notice and Sailing Instructions" each year for club racing.

Angelo Guarino
Said Created: Sat 15:46
Kett, I was hoping for a single page.

Tom Shenstone
Said Created: Sat 16:19
I'm all for more templates but what is wrong with Appendix S?  I actually have a w/l generic supplement for it that I use.  

The 'one page' appearance of the US Sailing Simple SI is an illusion.  Once you fill in all the 'list', 'describe' 'insert' fields with a sensible layout its going to come out to several pages.

The one advantage of the US Sailing Simple SI is that it omits a lot of the usual waffle.

US Sailing obviously dropped their version because WS produced Appendix S.

What's wrong with Appendix S is that:
  • it isn't combined with a NOR
  • it still has too much unnecessary detail
  • it is inconsistent with defaults already built in to the RRS that clubs then have to unwind in the SSI.  For example:  5.2 Orange Flags Up Orange Flags down, and13,2 Changes Protest Time Limit from the default in RRS 61.3
  • the articulation between the main body and the SSI is poor and users still have to flick back and forth between the SSI and the main text.

When Appendix S came out, I enthusiastically did a trial of using it, but the outcome was a SSI that was still about 3 pages long.  At a pinch I can get a combined NOR/SI down to about 4 pages and I concluded that using Appendix S wasn't worth the effort.
Created: 23-Oct-02 21:38
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Angelo Guarino
Said Created: Yesterday 12:05
What I was getting at was how simple could we make it (now leveraging Appx S in the other thread) for a “club”, that wants to have some ‘fun’ races to host something where it is clear that the RRS applies. Trying to make it so simple that there is little excuse not to do this minimum thing. 

Gordon Davies
Said Created: Today 16:25
There are two separate scenarios:
- a one -off race which requires appropriate race documents and a specific entry procedure
- a club that is already running regular club races that wishes to occasionally run some additional races organised in a short time.

My remarks concern the the second scenario. I maintain that a club can write in to their existing race documents rules that provide for this.  All boats registered with the club can then take part. Once this is done all that is required is a WhatsApp group. My local club has had such provision, used frequently by our cruiser fleet, for many years.

 John Allan
Said Created: Yesterday 12:45
I think it's important to design the scheme and choose the electronic platform before worrying too much about NOR/SI.  RaceQs would probably have gone a long way to doing the job but sadly its no longer with us.
Created: 23-Oct-02 21:44
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
There seem to be two, somewhat unrelated projects here:

  1. Refine Appendix S to produce a better document to enable people who are not experienced race managers to quickly and easily produce NOR/SI by a simple fill in the blanks process (and electronically facilitate publication).
  2. Develop a structure and system for ad hoc races, at non-scheduled times, short notice, and minimal resources.

I've asked Gordon some questions about 2 over in the Beercans thread.
Created: 23-Oct-02 22:41
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Yea .. that might be what it boils down to.  I wanna take a look at what Tom posted when I get a chance and see if something simple pops up to me. 
Created: 23-Oct-04 13:32
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Would you like to see my rough attempt at a form for SSI?

Seems to me that for ad hoc races, you might have quite a long complex master SI, covering such things as initiation  of race, electronic entry, rabbit start, RO of the day, results, etc, then quite a short SSI as a WhatsApp message, possibly with just a start date and time.
Created: 23-Oct-04 14:21
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Sure … let’s toss it all against the wall and see what sticks. :-)
Created: 23-Oct-04 15:11
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Any features of interest here  https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/how-to-make-race-committee-duty-easier.211943/post-8475092
Created: 23-Oct-06 01:10
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
More ideas

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/how-to-make-race-committee-duty-easier.211943/post-8476637

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/how-to-make-race-committee-duty-easier.211943/post-8476805
Created: 23-Oct-07 22:43
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
More detail about previous

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/how-to-make-race-committee-duty-easier.211943/post-8477692
Created: 23-Oct-08 21:49
Matthew Blake
0
Angelo... did this idea get developed any further than what I read here?  I think it is a good idea.  Our club usually publishes the NoR and the SI at the same time - mostly IAW RRS, but with a couple local rules added for scoring and entry.  Would probably be better done as a single document, if that is possible.

Also, is Appendix V (US prescriptions App. V, alternate penalties) "missing" from the RRS rules here because of copyright?  The search here turns up some headings, but no text of rules.
Created: 24-Mar-22 16:14
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Matt, I’m sorry, but I dropped to ball here. Appx V is here, but you have to choose Rx: USA when in the RRoS interface because Appx V is a US prescription. 
Created: 24-Mar-22 18:17
Matthew Blake
0
Rx = prescriptions. I see that now.
Created: 24-Mar-22 18:41
Matthew Blake
0
FYI - I look at US Sailing's online prescriptions file, and their V2 now looks and reads just like RRoS T1, but different than RRoS V2.  maybe it all means the same, but the format/wording is different.  Maybe RRoS Addendum V is out of date? 

Also, US Sailing labels it Appendix V,  RRoS uses Addendum V.  
Created: 24-Mar-22 18:57
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
The US Sailing Prescriptions shown on the WS website here
https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/NationalPrescriptionsUSA-[26795].pdf
Accessed from this web page
https://www.sailing.org/inside-world-sailing/rules-regulations/racing-rules-of-sailing/

Doesn't have any Appendix or Addendum V

The copy on the US Sailing website here

https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2021-2024-US-Prescriptions-Final.pdf

Does have the Appendices.

I've got a feeling the RRS.org version is still the 2017 version.
Created: 24-Mar-22 22:31
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Appendix V -> fixed.  Thanks for heads-up
Created: 24-Mar-23 12:57
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
In previous posts I said

Created: 23-Oct-02 21:38 
What's wrong with Appendix S is that:
  • it isn't combined with a NOR
  • it still has too much unnecessary detail
  • it is inconsistent with defaults already built in to the RRS that clubs then have to unwind in the SSI.  For example:  5.2 Orange Flags Up Orange Flags down, and13,2 Changes Protest Time Limit from the default in RRS 61.3
  • the articulation between the main body and the SSI is poor and users still have to flick back and forth between the SSI and the main text.

When Appendix S came out, I enthusiastically did a trial of using it, but the outcome was a SSI that was still about 3 pages long.  At a pinch I can get a combined NOR/SI down to about 4 pages and I concluded that using Appendix S wasn't worth the effort.

 Created: 23-Oct-02 22:41
There seem to be two, somewhat unrelated projects here:

  1. Refine Appendix S to produce a better document to enable people who are not experienced race managers to quickly and easily produce NOR/SI by a simple fill in the blanks process (and electronically facilitate publication).
  2. Develop a structure and system for ad hoc races, at non-scheduled times, short notice, and minimal resources.

There doesn't seem to have been much appetite for either of these objectives.

Maybe it would be helpful to move the goalposts a little and try this objective:

 
Develop Standard SI/NOR paragraphs for simple events that will allow a [tabular] SI/SSI that is short and easy: 

  • for race committees to fill in or write, and 
  • for competitors to read and understand on the water. 

Ideally we should end up with a SI/SSI document that consists of one page of tabular data and one page of course chartlets and mark/obstructions descriptions that can be laminated and carried on boats while racing. 

 As a starting point, attached are samples of a NOR and SSI, based on Appendix S as it stands.

In future posts I'll post detailed comments on Appendix S and suggested changes, that slim it down to just 5 paragraphs, and then I'll post a draft NOR/SI set based on that.

Comments and feedback welcome at any stage along the way.

Here are the first samples.




Created: 24-Apr-11 07:50
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