Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Repeated Breaking of Z Flag Rule (30.2)

John McPherson
Rule 
30.2

 Specifically "If a boat breaks this rule and is identified, she shall receive, without a hearing, a 20% Scoring Penalty ...."
and "If she is similarly identified during a subsequent attempt to start the same race, she shall receive an additional 20% Scoring Penalty."

It is clear, from the above, that a boat can be penalized twice in the same race, for Z flag breaches in different attempts to start the race. In this case they would get 2 x 20% = 40% penalty.

What should happen if there was a third attempt to start the race, and the same boat infringed the Z Flag rule for a third time? Should they get a 60% penalty? If not, what should happen?

Created: 23-Oct-24 23:10

Comments

Matt Bounds
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • National Judge
2
It is not 20%+20% = 40%.  It is 20% each instance.

For example, a Z-flag penalty in a 12 boat fleet . . .
20% x 12 = 2.4 points, rounds to 2 points.  Another 20% penalty is another 2 points for a total of 4 points
40% x 12 = 4.8 points, which rounds to 5 points - which is incorrect.

And yes, the penalties can accumulate until it's not worth the effort to start.  The worst possible score (according to 44.3(c)) is that of DNF.
Created: 23-Oct-24 23:25
John McPherson
0
Thank you Matt

- Good catch on the calculation. That makes sense.
- And it certainly makes sense  to continue to accumulate penalties.

Best regards
John
Created: 23-Oct-24 23:28
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
0
I think they get 20% per attempted start, e.g. each attempted start results in a general recall, without limit.  If there are 5 attempts to start the race and they break the rule during each attempted start then it is 100% (5 x 20%).

However, I am not sure if they can break the rule multiple times per attempt to start the race. Suppose what if she is over at 1 minute, and then again at 45 seconds, and then again at 30 seconds, and then again at 15 seconds, getting back to the pre-start side after each, is it only one 20% penalty or 4?  To me, this is where the rule isn't crystal clear.  But I would probably interpret the rule as once per attempted start.
Created: 23-Oct-24 23:31
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
1
I agree with Matt on the math.
Created: 23-Oct-24 23:32
Tim Hohmann
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Judge
2
I agree that each subsequent restart under Z would incur an additional penalty.

But I also wonder if a PRO would run a third Z flag start, or move on to Black.
Created: 23-Oct-25 10:57
Eric Meyn
Nationality: United States
0
So does that mean if you poke your nose into the triangle three different times during the last minute of the start sequence you get three 20% hits? Or is it only for restarts of the same heat?
Created: 23-Oct-25 14:44
Kett Cummins
Nationality: United States
1
I think Matt's approach is generally correct, but he missed one important detail.  44.3(c) specifies a points penalty of 20% of the score for Did Not Finish.  In a 12 boat fleet, a DNF score is 13 points and 20% of 13 is 2.6, which rounds to 3 points.
Created: 23-Oct-25 20:12
Matt Bounds
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • National Judge
1
Indeed, Kett.  That was not the rule when I missed that question on my first advanced race officer test in 2007 (the rule was changed from number of entries to DNF in the 2017-2020 rule book).  Nice catch!
Created: 23-Oct-25 21:06
Tim Hohmann
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Judge
1
Eric, no, there would have to be an intervening general recall between each attempt & breach.

Also note that the scoring penalty can't make the boat's score worse than what she would receive for DNF. 
Created: 23-Oct-26 00:02
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