Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing
Struggling with Q&A 2020-021
P
Daniele RomanoNationality: Italy
Certifications:
- Regional Race Officer
- Regional Judge
0
I'm having trouble with Q&A 2020-021 (Rule J2.1(4) requires the race committee to identify all rounding marks in relation to the definition Sail the Course).
Can someone please explain?
Many tanks.
D
Can someone please explain?
Many tanks.
D
Comments
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As I read Q&A 2020-021, the important point is that the marks were not designated whether they had to be passed or rounded. Absent that instruction, the boat that merely passed Mark T did, in fact "sail the course."
The important takeaway here is that the sailing instructions should include words like "All marks are to be rounded unless otherwise indicated." or "All marks (with the exception of the starting and finishing marks) are to be rounded unless otherwise indicated."
If those words had been in the sailing instructions referenced in the Question, then the answer to Q2 would have been "No."
https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/QA2020.021-[26748].pdf
Everything is crystal clear to me now!
(Well... everything... everything about Q&A 2020-021! LOL )
Absent preset course diagrams, when the course is to be indicated on a course board on the water, I cannot recall ever reading a SI that the course will be rounding the listed marks IN THE ORDER INDICATED on the course board.
They need to be passed in the correct order
2. it does not say to round in order
3. yes, they are PASSED in order, continuously and by acclamation
4. (and most importantly) it is just an illustration of the point.
The diagram on the left does not show the track of a boat successfully sailing the course of: Start A B C A Finish .. with no marks designated as rounding marks.
I agree with Phil.
Angelo,
What evidence is there that the boat in the first diagram did not pass the marks in the correct order?
It's not a requirement that rounding marks be 'designated'. RRS J2.1(4) just requires that rounding marks be 'identified'.
This can be done in a course diagram.
Appendix LG uses the following wording
10.2 {If not clear in the course diagrams, add:} The following marks are rounding marks:
<list> .
We should use the Appendix LG wording wherever possible.
It says: 'The race committee communicates orally, under rule 90.2(c), that the course will be: ...'.
Case 32
Rule 90.2(c), Race Committee; Sailing Instructions; Scoring: Sailing Instructions
A competitor is entitled to look exclusively to written sailing instructions and to any written amendments for all details relating to sailing the course.
I don't think there was a course or a race at all.
I don't have any trouble inferring that the order shown on the course board is the 'correct order' for purposes of Definition - Sail the Course.
Ok. Extend a line perpendicular off the port side of the bow and stern on the boat in Phil’s drawing.
Next, show me how that boat’s track shows the boat passed the marks in order on the correct side
Course: Start A B C A Finish
Saying it happens simultaneously goes against what is commonly understood as “pass … in correct order” IMO. “In order” is commonly understood as one after the other, which is different than simultaneously.
I meant to ask you to present evidence, as the protesting party as to what order the boat passed the marks.
My argument goes:
Leg Start - A: Marks B and C do not begin, bound or end the leg and a boat may leave them on either side. At any point on Phil's curve, the boat leaves A to port.
Leg A - B: Mark C does not begin, bound or end the leg and a boat may leave it on either side. At the next point on Phil's curve, the boat leaves B to port.
Leg B - C: Mark A does not begin, bound or end the leg and a boat may leave it on either side. At the next point on Phil's curve, the boat leaves C to port.
Leg C - Finish: The boat has left C to port and finishes.
I think maybe we're getting a bit metaphysical here.
What if Marks B and C were out to the 'east' of A? Are you saying that this would be different?
In the Q&A, Mark T is passed in order and on the correct side between the previous and following mark in the course description.
I agree … Philip’s is a bit too metaphysical to produce useful insights into the rules (which is saying something for me!)
The Q&A and the US appeal provide useful, applicable insights I think.
So let’s look at the first leg you propose. The boat starts at the starboard end and sails directly to A, passing C to starboard and B to port on the way. She reaches A, passes A to port and proceeds to B.
The 2nd sentence of 28.1 states,
Marks B and C do not bound the leg from Start to A, so she may leave B and C on either side.