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Definition of the word "device"
Alfred Clauss
0
What is the definition of the word device? Mostly thinking in relation to RRS 49.1 and could another crew member be defined as a device by the rule?
Created: 24-Mar-28 11:00
Comments
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
International Judge
4
'A device is an object that has been invented for a particular purpose' Collins Dictionary
Created: 24-Mar-28 11:26
Jack Fenwick
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
National Umpire
National Measurer
1
In terminology a “boat” is “a sailboat and the crew on board” and a “competitor” is “a person who races or intends to race in the event” I think both of them effectively describe human beings and their interactions with a boat so don’t see how they could be described as a device. As Gordon has said, the dictionary gives a pretty good steer also.
Created: 24-Mar-28 12:03
Alfred Clauss
0
That sounds correct, as according to case 4 in the casebook a competitor's may hold a sheet outboard while a device may not.
Created: 24-Mar-28 12:08
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
International Judge
1
RRS Terminology states that other words (not defined in RRS) are used in the sense ordinarily understood in nautical and general use.
World Sailing Constitution 2.3 states: All official Federation English texts should be edited to comply with what is known as “Plain English” in the United Kingdom.
This can be an issue when discussing the rules with speakers of other forms of English, or closely related languages. It also means that RRS 47 is in breach of WS Con 2.3 - because trash, in this context is a US English alternative to the the UK English word 'rubbish'!
As usual ERS uses a different wording from RRS - ERS defines a 'fitting' as an ' item, including any associated fitting, that is not part of the boat structure but is bonded or fastened to the hull, hull appendages or rig.
ERS C.5.2 Personal Equipment also defines personal equipment as: All personal effects carried or worn and items worn on board to keep warm and/or dry, and/or to protect the body, personal flotation device, safety harnesses and hiking aids worn to keep the person aboard or afloat.
RRS 49.1 would be clearer if 'device' were replaced by 'fitting or personal equipment'.
Created: 24-Mar-28 12:53
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
Judge In Training
0
Does this mean that a sailor should not be allowed to hike off the underside of the cutty cabin on a R19? How about if a sailor falls in the water because their mainsheet snaps... does that mean they were using the mainsheet to position themselves outboard? I was pointed to match racing call L3 to answer these questions. It's pretty clear that everything I asked about above is allowed.
Created: 24-Mar-28 15:58
Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
Club Race Officer
Judge In Training
0
Perhaps Alfred was contemplating the trapezing crew standing on the skipper's shoulders? That is more a meme than a device.
Created: 24-Mar-28 17:16
Myrto Antonopoulou
Certifications:
International Judge
1
“No part of a person’s body is a ‘device’” according to WS Case 4, which refers to the word “device” used in RRS 55.3.
Created: 24-Mar-28 19:23
Rene Nusse
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
Club Race Officer
Club Judge
Umpire In Training
0
Generally, the interpretation of undefined words within legislation/rules takes the ordinary and natural meaning of the words used in that provision. The Macquarie dictionary is used at the highest level in Australia for this purpose.
Tongue in cheek for discussion: prosthetics, hearing aids, etc.…
Created: 24-Mar-29 03:37
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
International Judge
0
Rene, I wrote earlier: World Sailing Constitution 2.3 states: All official Federation English texts should be edited to comply with what is known as “Plain English” in the United Kingdom.
This can be an issue when discussing the rules with speakers of other forms of English, or closely related languages. It also means that RRS 47 is in breach of WS Con 2.3 - because trash, in this context is a US English alternative to the the UK English word 'rubbish'!
I think both of them effectively describe human beings and their interactions with a boat so don’t see how they could be described as a device.
As Gordon has said, the dictionary gives a pretty good steer also.
World Sailing Constitution 2.3 states: All official Federation English texts should be edited to comply with what is known as “Plain English”
in the United Kingdom.
This can be an issue when discussing the rules with speakers of other forms of English, or closely related languages. It also means that RRS 47 is in breach of WS Con 2.3 - because trash, in this context is a US English alternative to the the UK English word 'rubbish'!
As usual ERS uses a different wording from RRS - ERS defines a 'fitting' as an ' item, including any associated fitting, that is not part of the boat
structure but is bonded or fastened to the hull, hull appendages or rig.
ERS C.5.2 Personal Equipment also defines personal equipment as:
All personal effects carried or worn and items worn on board to keep warm and/or dry, and/or to protect the body, personal flotation device, safety
harnesses and hiking aids worn to keep the person aboard or afloat.
RRS 49.1 would be clearer if 'device' were replaced by 'fitting or personal equipment'.
Does this mean that a sailor should not be allowed to hike off the underside of the cutty cabin on a R19?
I was pointed to match racing call L3 to answer these questions. It's pretty clear that everything I asked about above is allowed.How about if a sailor falls in the water because their mainsheet snaps... does that mean they were using the mainsheet to position themselves outboard?
That is more a meme than a device.
I wrote earlier:
World Sailing Constitution 2.3 states: All official Federation English texts should be edited to comply with what is known as “Plain English”
in the United Kingdom.
This can be an issue when discussing the rules with speakers of other forms of English, or closely related languages. It also means that RRS 47 is in breach of WS Con 2.3 - because trash, in this context is a US English alternative to the the UK English word 'rubbish'!