Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing
TLE time limit expires
Zsolt Regenyi
Nationality: Hungary
Certifications:
- International Judge
0
Hi!
TLE is to be applied if boats are not finished within the time given for the races! The regatta is for one race a day for 3 days. So each day one race. Those who are not finished within the time limit get 2 points to the legally finished boats number.
My question is is this TLE rule are somewhere in Worldsailing’s regulation?
TLE is to be applied if boats are not finished within the time given for the races! The regatta is for one race a day for 3 days. So each day one race. Those who are not finished within the time limit get 2 points to the legally finished boats number.
My question is is this TLE rule are somewhere in Worldsailing’s regulation?
Comments
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The OA/RC can devise any formula they like and write it into the NOR/SI.
A standard form of words using 'Finishing Window' is shown in Appendix LG
16 TIME LIMITS [AND TARGET TIMES]
I concur with Craig on this. For scoring if you have a programme such as Sailwave it does all the work for you. You can set it to almost any value you wish for TLE in the set up.
I believe TLE is used so that competitors don't get discouraged by a DNF score. But, as Warren states, TLE can produce unfair results in a weekend series and should never be used for qualifying rounds.
TLE may be useful in a long series where you want people to keep showing up to race every week. A5.3 is also useful in a long series, but beware, A5.3 places an onus on the Race Committee to count and record the number of boats that come to the starting area for each race.
Remember This still helps because if you never define a time limit, the race committee may now have to abandon a race where some finishers have been recorded, which also gets thorny. (If you don't state a time limit or window, there is no time limit on the race.) You also could simply state "Boats not finishing within the time limit shall be scored DNF" and or "Boats not finished within 30 minutes of the first boat finishing will be scored DNF"
One thing that does come to mind when talking about TLE that I've brought up before is that, at least in the US, when sailors are faced with a dying breeze and a TL that is fast approaching, they will often do the time/distance calc and realize they will "never make it". At that point, they may radio the RC and "retire".
It may be that the SI's provide for a #finisher-based score for DNF/TLE but a #starters-based or #entire-based score for retire/DSQ .. as "retiring" is a penalty a boat can take.
I've thought a boat, faced with the 'never make it' calculus, should be able to call the RC to let them know they will not finish within time and request they be given a DNF/TLE score. I think that language matches the facts better and removes the confusion of using "retire" for this purpose.
PS: the challenge here is def: racing. A boat is still "racing" unless they "retire", so they can't turn on their engine to head home by calling the RC to TLE. So, an SI would also need to include a propulsion-use clause for after such a call.
I wonder if it's actually okay though:
42.1 says: "Except when permitted in rule 42.3 or 45, a boat shall compete by using only the wind and water to increase, ..."
Compete does not have a special definition in RRS, so we use the ordinary meaning, by which I would think a boat is not competing if they've turned on their engine to leave the race course and head home.
Hmm .. maybe .. but I'd rather think we can simply state the intent leveraging 42.3(i) ..
So, maybe an SI that allows boats to call in a TLE/DNF might read ???
16.3
The Finishing Window is the time for boats to finish after the first boat sails the course and finishes.Boats failing to finish within [X minutes] after the first boat sails the course and finishes, and not subsequently retiring, penalized or given redress, will be scored Time Limit Expired (TLE) without a hearing. A boat scored TLE shall be scored points for the finishing place [one][two] more than the points scored by the last boat that finished.within the Finishing Window.This changes RRS 35, A5.1, A5.2 and A10.Often different fleets/racing circles will have different courses and finishing windows (different speed of boats and course lengths).
If you look at SI 16.1 .. it anticipates a "table" of values .. not just a single number.
Sure, if there is only one fleet (an OD regatta for instance), there is less need for a table. (Though using a table makes it easier to find later on the water if you are the boat running out of time).
Here is the current Appendix LG instruction:
16.3 The Finishing Window is the time for boats to finish after the first boat sails the course and finishes. Boats failing to finish within the Finishing Window, and not subsequently retiring, penalized or given redress, will be scored Time Limit Expired (TLE) without a hearing. A boat scored TLE shall be scored points for the finishing place [one][two] more than the points scored by the last boat that finished within the Finishing Window. This changes RRS 35, A5.1, A5.2 and A10.
To me there are three parts:
As long as you have a different scoring code name, Sailwave has no problems with managing two versions of those letter scoring codes, but there is a significant impact on the RC.
A solution could be that the TLE score would be based on the last boat that finished within the finish window and counts it as a rank position (no letter scores) in the race. It's probably not perfect, but scoring systems should not have any problems with this, and it doesn't add any additional work or complexity for the race committee.