Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

OCS scoring penalties 2025-2028

Kett Cummins
Nationality: United States
I don't see where this discussion has been (re-) addressed under the 2025-2028 rules.  If so, I apologize!

Proposal 002-22 is to change the definition of Finish by removing the direct requirement to Start, and it specifically mentions, as Reason #3, support for alternate OCS penalties.  This proposal was recommended for approval.  Yay!

Unfortunately, recommended Proposal 010-23 then adds-back the direct requirement to Start in the definition of Sail the Course.  This appears to recreate the same problem remedied by 002-22.  Boo!

Thoughts?  Are we still stuck with DR21-01?

Best,
Kett
Created: Sun 16:30

Comments

P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Correct .. we still need to rely upon DR21-01 "ALTERNATIVE STARTING PENALTY"
Created: Sun 16:33
Eric Rimkus
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
0
Except DR21-01 expires on 12/31/24 which makes it a real challenge to write an NoR for a 2025 event that needs to be published soon. 
Created: Sun 17:02
Kett Cummins
Nationality: United States
0
Here's a thought for the 2025-2028 rules...

A boat that does not Start, does not Sail the Course; but she can still Finish according to the new definition.

A5.2 assigns a penalty for not Sailing the Course, which can be changed by the NOR/SI.  There's nothing to prohibit the NOR/SI from specifying an alternative penalty for OCS (a form of not Sailing the Course) which includes scoring the boat as having Finished.

One problem with this, is that other rules refer to Sailing the Course, such as RRS 35.  If an OCS boat does not Sail the Course, she does not trigger the time limit.  Of course, the NOR/SI can change RRS 35 to key on Finishing, instead of on Sailing the Course.  There may be other rules with that same issue.

Kett
Created: Sun 17:29
Robin Gray
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • International Race Officer
  • National Race Officer
0
The definition of Finish does not include Sail the Course but merely to cross the finish line from the course side. So to my mind we no longer need DR21-01 and can still write in alternative penalties for OCS.  This of course may require a change to RRS 28.1 and 35.
Created: Sun 18:16
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Robin ... I think you are correct ... my error. 

Start is out of finish ... so we are back to where we were before. We can change 28, remove the reference to "sail the course" and write a new 28. 
Created: Sun 18:48
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
1
I'm going through the 2025 RRS now .. looking for rules that will need to be changed: STC = Sail the course

28.1 (STC)
35 (STC)
29.1 (OCS signal)
A5.1 (STC)
A5.2 (STC)
A10 (to define an alternate starting penalty and abbreviation). 

... interestringly, did not start and did not finish are removed from A5.1 and A5.2 (as redundant because STC has both).  It'll be up to the RC to parse STC's components when applying A10.

Did I miss anything?
Created: Mon 10:45
Kett Cummins
Nationality: United States
0
Yes, I believe A6.1 is affected as well.  And possibly A5.3, if it is so spec'd in the NOR/SI (not typical, but possible).

29.1 does not have to be changed.  The OA can still give OCS boats the opportunity to restart; or not.  I have seen it done this way so that a boat doesn't sail an entire distance race only to discover they were OCS and not scored.

I disagree that A5.1 is changed.  The race committee is still scoring OCS boats "accordingly" without a hearing.  No change.

I also disagree that A10 is changed.  The OCS description remains accurate even with an alternative penalty.  The penalty itself can be described in the NOR/SI.

Here is an example of an NOR/SI rule (there are other permutations and options)...

OCS PENALTY
RRS 29.1 is omitted; OCS boats shall not restart.  A boat scored OCS shall have 30 minutes added to her corrected time and place in her corrected finishing position.  This alters RRS 28.1, A5.2, & A6.1.  RRS 35 is changed to substitute "finishes" for "sails the course".

Kett
Created: Mon 12:44
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