Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Summary of the 2025-2028 rules changes

Rene Nusse
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
  • Umpire In Training
Has anyone done a presentation to highlight any relevant rule changes in the 2025-2028 rules?
Created: 24-Oct-14 00:33

Comments

Nick Hutton
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
0
There is a summary written by Howard Elliott IJ on the Australian Sailing Rules website. AS will be publishing further info as it is prepared, but Howard’s summary is a very good start. 
Created: 24-Oct-14 00:54
P
Peter van Muyden
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
2
There is not an actual presentation, but there are quite a few documents in the "RSS Study Pack 2025-2028" section found here:   https://www.sailing.org/racingrules/
Created: 24-Oct-14 00:58
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
7
Here's a presentation I gave yesterday.

It's in the context of a review of rules generally and the major changes affecting sailors on the water.

Email me if you want the Powerpoint original.

RACING RULES PRESENTATION 2024.pdf 1.12 MB
Created: 24-Oct-14 01:08
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
John, great presentation. From everything I can find, including my own reading through part 2, almost the only game changes are in rule 18. There's
  • the re-wording
  • the fact that it's first to the zone in clear ahead/astern situations (which might change tactics slightly)
  • and leaving the mark astern

This last one I've seen explored a little bit, but not yet in JA's presentation, nor in Howard Elliot's summary (at least not in depth). The likely pain point on the water will be when the clear-ahead boat is rounding the offset wide-and-tight and intends to gybe. This has been illustrated in past threads on this site, but I fear there's not quite enough focus on it. I think it could be a really big deal in tight fleets, where you're rounding the offset two abreast, and the windward/outside boat wants to gybe in front of a clear astern boat who is otherwise pushing on through. This could apply in most boat types, including JAM, sym-spins, a-syms, and maybe foiling or planing cats as well. I fear it could cause pretty big pile-ups at the offset, sort of how we're used to seeing them at the leeward mark or gate when boats ahead are blanketed and the pack overtakes them. This could be dealt with, but the fleet will need to be able to at least partially predict the chaos to avoid collisions as well as protests. Education will be the first step, and it ought to happen before any big fleets start racing... I look forward to seeing if collegiate racing runs into this in the Spring.
Created: 24-Oct-17 21:01
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
For reference, it's the below scenario that I'm worried about. Either G is unprepared, OR in the scenario where G is prepared, and slows or goes outside, the problem cascades back, either causing a collision, or slowing the race. Is there something that race management can do to minimize this concern? Should the leeward mark / gate be further course left to reduce the chance of gybing at the offset?
New Mark-Room.jpeg 68.6 KB
Created: 24-Oct-17 21:32
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
1
That looks like a standard late inside overlapped to me

Y never leaves the mark astern.

It's all on G.  She goes in at her own risk.  See Case 63.

How is this different under the 2025  RRS from preceding versions?
Created: 24-Oct-17 23:27
Rene Nusse
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
  • Umpire In Training
0
I was going to enquire about how Rule 16 applies here but reading Case 63 I no longer have to. Thanks John...
Created: 24-Oct-18 01:41
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
John ... might want to consider adding the change to RRS 17 to your presentation
Created: 24-Oct-18 12:15
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Ang, you're probably right.
Created: 24-Oct-18 12:54
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
That looks like a standard late inside overlapped to me
How is this different under the 2025  RRS from preceding versions? 
John, I think you're right, though the 2022 Test Rule 18 quiz answers state that "experts [did not previously] agree on the answer"... Given that, I better see the value.

It's fascinating to me that we have all this work done on the game changes in the test rule, and then so little done to explicate the actual 2025 rule which is similar to, but I believe not the same.
image.png 144 KB
Created: 24-Oct-18 13:06
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
1
The argument under the 2021 rules appears to be that Red (or Yellow)' gybe was not ''necessary to sail the course', even if it was her proper course.

Under the 2025 rules 'necessary to sail the course' is gone from Definition Mark-room, and all we are left with is 'round[ing] the mark', and not yet 'left the mark astern'.

Elegant in it's simplicity.

Case 63 is going to need a rewrite I think, in particular the reference to 'proper course' is a hangover from when Definition Mark-room included room to sail her proper course at the mark, which went 2 quads ago.
Created: 24-Oct-18 22:15
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
FWIW .. the original proposed new 18 and associated def's included "proper course" in the new def of Mark Room.  Not only did that not survive the sausage-making, but "as necessary to sail the course" went out along with it.   We do have a Forum Section dedicated to the Rule 18 proposal where you can see the original submission out of the working group and other associated discussions.

We will have to see what the Case Book writers do with all of this (and our hard working MNA Appeals Committees).  Maybe they will decide to imbue the phrase "to round" with much of what was conveyed in "as necessary to sail" in the Cases and Appeals in their rules interpretations/applications.
Created: 24-Oct-20 11:36
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
John A .. in your presentation you state " Mark-room has been given when an entitled boat leaves the mark-astern".

When we read the new Mark Room def, there is an "and" between MR (b) "to round or pass" and MR (c) "to leave it astern".  

How I read it, leaving the mark astern is not a sufficient test by itself.
Created: 24-Oct-20 12:06
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Angelo, we discussed 'chronological sequence' in the other thread and I dropped that term from the presentation.

I think, for simplicity's sake I don't want to change that slide in the presentation.

Can you pitch up a concrete example where the statement is problematical? 
Created: 24-Oct-20 21:42
Rene Nusse
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
  • Umpire In Training
0
AG - To me, mark-room must be given, not taken. So the test simply describe your mark rounding obligations to another boat in three stages. Contravene any one of these three stages and you contravene the rule.  "How I read it, leaving the mark astern is not a sufficient test by itself." I'm interested to know why not?
Created: 24-Oct-21 00:52
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
1
Rene, the way I look at it is that mark-room is space that a boat is either sailing within or outside-of.  Outside of this space, she looses access to 43.1(b) exoneration [based on mark-room].

We have "to round" and "to leave astern".   When we had "as necessary to sail the course", we most often applied that to "round" (as evidenced in Cases and Appeals) to determine the angular limit of MR to "round". [When the mark is left astern is more obvious.].

Without that phrase, and without the proposed inclusion of "proper course", we await the interpretations to determine when a boat has rounded.

My point to John is that both must be satisfied.

When we look at RRS 28 and def: sail the course we could construct an interpretation of "round".  The requirement of STC is that the string when pulled taught [from the previous mark] touches a rounding mark on its proper side.

So, has a boat rounded when that condition is satisfied?  As soon as they have altered course and sailed enough that her taught string touches?

If so, and then as soon as the mark is left astern is MR given?

I'm looking forward to the updated Cases and Appeals to answer these questions. 
Created: 24-Oct-21 10:49
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
John ... you might want to consider adding a note about 14's "however clause" only applying to the new 14(a) and not (b) and (c) ... that we just talked about in the "slowing down" thread. 
Created: 24-Nov-08 21:48
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
1
Ang,  ' you might want to consider adding a note about 14's "however clause" only applying to the new 14(a) and not (b) and (c) '

I'm not inclined to:  I think it's getting a bit too deep for the intended level of the presentation.

I also think that (b) and (c) are sufficiently different from the avoid contact scenarios that we are used to that it doesn't merit too much discussion.

See also my post in reply to John S's new thread.  I really don't want to talk about causation (to competitors) until the dust settles a bit.
Created: 24-Nov-11 05:59
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Sounds good John
Created: 24-Nov-11 12:25
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