Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Language of Race Documents

Kenneth Jones
Nationality: China
I'm trying to understand how multilingual race management works. I'm looking at the NOR for an upcoming regatta (written in a local language) and it says the English prevails. The SIs just came out and they say the local language prevails. They both specify RRS 2021-2024. 
Rule
Rule says RRS, NOR, SI are all Rules. Prescriptions are excluded in both race documents. Yet 
Hail
says English is always acceptable. Is there any guidance, or are there Cases which can help clarify my confusion? How, for example, can a translation of RRS prevail over the original RRS? Does this constitute a Change under 
86.1
 ?

I really don't get it. 
Created: 24-Nov-12 13:48

Comments

P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
I'm not certain I know what your question is. What do they mean to say "English" or "local language prevails"?? On the water? In the written rule? Or in the regatta in general?

My first thought is that if anyone has made a decision to travel to this regatta based on the NOR and my English Language skills, they may be miffed about that changing. I know that is unlikely, but it brings me to... Secondly, these things should not be repeated on both NOR and SI. If they wanted to change that, they should have issued a change to the NOR, and that should still happen.

Lastly, I continue to wish our regatta advertisements (NORs) weren't in legalese. I someday hope to gift the sport of sailing a better NOR template (less wordy and more flexible/beautiful graphically). So far I've tried and not succeeded, so I can't fault anyone else for the current state.
Created: 24-Nov-12 19:31
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
RRS 63.7 provides guidance on conflicts between the NOR and SI and other documents that govern the event other than the RRS, Class Rules and National Prescriptions.

Appendix KG (Notice of Race Guide) provides, sample text and a note as follows.

1.11 If there is a conflict between languages the English text takes precedence.
(Consider the consequences if local government regulations apply that are published in a language other than English.)

The provisions of RRS - Introduction - Terminology - Hails apply only to hails required by the rules:  'acceptability' has no meaning with respect to written documents.

So, the RRS and most class rules are natively written in English and the English text of those rules should take precedence.

Where National Prescriptions, for example, are natively written in a language other than English, it would be sensible for the original language to prevail.
Created: 24-Nov-12 19:57
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Niko, '  I continue to wish our regatta advertisements (NORs) weren't in legalese. '

Generally the RRS and Appendices KG and LG are written in sound plain language

What sorts of examples of 'legalese' do you have in mind?
Created: 24-Nov-12 19:59
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
I'm talking about the numbers and graphics. Maybe what I want is impossible, but I'd love for an NOR for a charity or local event to look more like these: 
Understood that as the stakes go up (regional, national, international, etc.) the format needs to be more bullet-proof in an appeals process, etc.

I'll add: often we produce advertising that isn't the NOR. It has lots of info that duplicates the NOR. I suppose we expect people to read the ad, then the NOR, then eventually the SI. The ad creates additional "paperwork" that could be out of date or conflicting. Plus, lots of people read the ad but not the NOR. Questions worth asking:
  • Can they be part of the same document?
  • Can we cut anything from the NOR that isn't critical to deciding to race?
  • Is it better if the ad says "mid-morning" instead of "10:30" so people are forced to read the NOR/SI?

Again, I'm critiquing the current system, but not criticizing. I can totally understand how we got here, and I don't yet have a better solution.
Just imagine how much more fun this NOR could be: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10EGp4avbfUNEVLCHAt9NGhGSMadk22H0agJ5gqQZqf4/edit?tab=t.0
Created: 24-Nov-12 20:27
Kenneth Jones
Nationality: China
0
Niko, I'm sorry not to have given enough detail. The (self-translated) translation of the NOR section is "1.7 If conflict between versions [of the Rules], English version prevails"

Thank you, John, for the clarity. I've just been informed that no English NOR actually exists.
Created: 24-Nov-13 02:33
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Niko, Once upon a time the Notice of Race was conceived of as a notice that could be set up in print as a handbill or typed and pinned up on a noticeboard.

Here's the requirement from the IYRU rules of 1947

20241113_075800.jpg 2.34 MB


Until 1995 the Notice of Race was not a rule and had no binding force, which is why, up to 2021 there was so much mandatory repetition between the NOR and SI.

Over time, Notices of Race became more complex and detailed, until, in the 1995 rewrite of the RRS, the Notice of Race became a rule, by definition.

As a rule, if it became necessary for it to be interpreted by a protest committee, I wouldn't want to be embroiled in some sort of post-modernist dispute about the meaning of the mixture of words and pictures such as is shown on your posters.

So I think it's inevitable that advertising and the Notice of Race need to be separate.

I think what you're complaining about is not that Notices of Race are written in 'legalese', but that they are NOT written in 'advertisingese'. 

I think it's probably time that we stopped thinking in terms of ink on paper, and focused more on electronic communication.  The posters you provided are nice colourful posters, but they're terrible web design.  Web access to a Notice of Race will almost always be via some sort of 'landing page', which is the opportunity to do the advertising, before potential entrants clicked to link to the formal Notice of Race.

To answer your questions:

Can the  Advertising and the NOR be part of the same document?

In the ink and paper world, Notices of Race often have colourful cover pages that look pretty much like like your posters.  I don't like it.  I think it's a waste of paper and ink.

In the www, as discussed above, there will usually be a 'landing page' or a link from some other form of advertising.  Technically I guess that's a different 'document'.  I can live with the waste of electrons.

Can we cut anything from the NOR that isn't critical to deciding to race?

RRS J1.1 and J1.2list things that must be in the Notice of Race, always or only if applicable.

RRSJ1.3 lists things that must be included if they would help competitors decide whether to attend the event or that conveys other information they will need before the sailing instructions become available.

It's up to the OA to decide whether something would help competitors or not, but many OA include things that aren't really helpful and could better be put in SI or left out altogether.

The criteria isn't 'criical', it's 'would be helpful'.

Is it better if the ad says "mid-morning" instead of "10:30" so people are forced to read the NOR/SI?

No.  'mid-morning' is 11 characters long.  '10:30' is 5 characters long.

Why should we want to force entrants to read the NOR/SI?  No rules says 'Competitors shall read the NOR'.
Created: 24-Nov-13 04:39
Kenneth Jones
Nationality: China
1
John, I agree with much of you say. Nico, I definitely understand your sentiment. But please, can we focus on the issue of language? I have little experience with European racing, for example; are the race documents always, or almost always, issued in the local language AND English? If there's no English in the NORs/SIs, can at least the references to RRS, OR, Regs, etc. be universalized?
Created: 24-Nov-13 11:00
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Ken ... I don't have any other-than-English regatta experience .. but I've been looking at your OP and the replies and have a couple thoughts. 

Are you considering competing in this event or have you been asked to review the race docs as a member of the PC?  In either case, you have an opportunity to improve the docs by making queries and/or recommendations to the PC Chair and OA.  

I take the view that "it takes a village" to run a regatta.  The vast, vast majority of regattas are run by volunteers with varying knowledge of the RRS and even the most knowledgeable and experienced people can make mistakes.  

I've got myself a bit of a rep in my area for "helping" when I find potential issues with the race docs in events for my J/105 fleet and reaching out ASAP to the OA or RC depending upon if the issue is in the NOR or SI or both. I figure it's always best to give them a heads-up about things early ... so they can try to fix it up before racing and not try to untangle an error, problem or conflict later in a hearing.

You will find some people are grateful for the heads-up ... some will get defensive. In the end, if you are only a competitor or the PC ... neither the NOR or SI are "your" docs .. they are theirs. 

If you are being asked to serve on the RC ... or help the OA .. then that's a different matter.  You are then in a better position effect the change. 
Created: 24-Nov-16 12:35
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