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I was delivering a race officer course at the weekend and during the course we were discussing starting penalties and one of the students pointed out a possible error in rule 30.2 relating to the use of Flag Z.
The rule states “………She shall be penalised even if the race is restarted or resailed, but not if it is postponed or abandoned before the starting signal…….” This led to a discussion about abandoning before the starting signal.
In the 2025-2028 rules the section on Flag Signals states that all of the variations of Flag N apply only to races in progress, but there is no definition of what in progress means. Therefore my assumption was that all variations of Flag N could not be used before the starting signal. In all of the change documents I have seen this has been highlighted as a change to race management. I am assuming that as the flag descriptions are in the racing rules of sailing document that they are part of the rules
However rule 27.3 states that all variations of flag N can be used before the starting signal.
Therefore I guess my question is what does ‘in progress’ mean as there appears to be a conflict between the race signals section and rule 27.3. Additionally if rule 27.3 is correct how do you signal an abandonment before the starting signal?
Am I missing something?
Extracts from the WS 2025-2028 RRS document on the WS website are below.
Paul, I don't think you are missing anything. I believe 27.3 and 30.2 should have been updated when the signals were changed. I have always been taught that you cannot abandon anything that has not started and have always postponed a race before the starting signal. The new wording to the signals confirms this but I agree that 27.3 and 30.2 probably conflict with this view.in in conflict. But does it really matter?
I don't agree with the proposition that you can't abandon a race that has not yet started.
RRS 27.3 has always said
Before the starting signal, the race committee may for any reason ... abandon the race.
But I agree with John S that it doesn't really matter.
In the early versions of the 2025 RRS, RRS 32.3 said
32.3 To abandon the race, the race committee shall display flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds.
and the Race Signals with flag N only applied to races in progress.
The effect of this was that RRS 32.3 told us the only way in which a race committee could abandon a race, that is by displaying the flag signals that meant 'races in progress are abandoned', so according to the rules there was no way that a race committee could abandon any race that wasn't 'in progress'.
The term “races in progress” is not defined or used in any other racing rule, or authoritative interpretations of the racing rules (cases or call books). We suggest that until such time when there is an authoritative interpretation, the phrase "races in progress" refers to any race for which the starting sequence has started and in which at least one boat is still racing.
Therefore, after the starting sequence has started and before the race has started, you can postpone or abandon that race, and send the boats ashore or tell them that there is no more racing that day by displaying flag AP, AP over H, or AP over A, with two sounds, or flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds (see rule 27.3).
Once the race has started, and while at least one boat is still racing in that race, you can abandon the race, and have them return to the starting area, go ashore, or tell them there is no more racing that day by displaying flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds (see rules 32.1 and 32.3).
If you need to send everyone ashore for safety reasons, such as an approaching storm, and some classes races are in progress and others are not, you'll need to display the following race signals:
N over H with three sound signals - to abandon races in progress and send boats ashore.
AP over H with two sound signals - to postpone races not in progress and send boats ashore.
I agree with the above. A race is in progress after the warning signal, and whilst any boat is still racing. After this you can abandon but not with a flag signal.
Surely the race is not in progress at the warning signal. Boats are not even racing until the prep signal. I would have thought that the race was not in progress until at least one boat meets the definition of start.
Is there any documentation from WS that supports the meaning of ‘in progress’ to be from the warning signal?
I respect everyones responses to my question but they all appear to be opinions rather than a definition that can be used in a protest room
Paul, Comments made on a site such as this can only be opinions as WS are the only body that can give a to give definitive response. I seriously doubt that scenario you describe will ever end up in a protest room but if you do need a definitive response you should raise the matter through the Q and A process at World Sailing.
I have recently raised this with the RYA. The use of the flags in Race Signals means that you can only abandon using flags if the race is in progress. A boat is racing from her preparatory signal (Def Racing), therefore the abandon signals by flag can be made from the preparatory, although I agree that unless N over H or A, you would probably only use AP before the starting signal. However as stated above rule 27.3 also exists, so if you wish to abandon say for the last day of racing either ashore or before the preparatory on the water, you have to find another way of issuing the instruction, as the flags cannot be used, so you either publish a written notice or have to send a rib round to inform those on the water. It is unsatisfactory that WS did not really think this through, but the Race Signals (flags) & 27.3 now operate independently with the use of flags in 27.3 still only being able to be used from the preparatory.
Interesting comment Paul. As judges, we have to interpret the English language as presented to us in the RRS (& cases) & then apply our interpretation to the facts found. Where the RRS (or cases) are not clear, then our interpretation will always be an opinion until, overturned or there is a case on it.
RRS 27.3 states that a RC may abandon a race before the starting signal. RRS 32 refers to abandoning a race after the starting signal, even if one or more boats have finished RRS 61.4(c) allows the PC to abandon a race following a redress hearing, when all boats have finished
Therefore, a race may be abandoned before or after the starting signal. If for instance, after the starting signal of a class, but while other classes have yet to start, by displaying N the RC abandons all races that have started, and all those that have yet to start.
I would suggest: Display AP when no class has started, or when the RC does not which to curtail a race that has started. Display N when the RC wishes to curtail a race that has started but and there are boats still sailing. This effectively postpones all races that have yet to start.
After the starting sequence has started and before the race has started, you can postpone or abandon that race, and send the boats ashore or tell them that there is no more racing that day by displaying flag AP, AP over H, or AP over A, with two sounds, or flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds (see rule 27.3).
Once the race has started, and while at least one boat is still racing in that race, you can abandon the race, and have them return to the starting area, go ashore, or tell them there is no more racing that day by displaying flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds (see rules 32.1 and 32.3).
If you need to send everyone ashore for safety reasons, such as an approaching storm, and some classes races are in progress and others are not, you'll need to display the following race signals:
N over H with three sound signals - to abandon races in progress and send boats ashore.
AP over H with two sound signals - to postpone races not in progress and send boats ashore.
Mark T is correct and the RRS Definitions are explicit; a boat is racing from the Preparatory Signal (at 4 minutes before the Start, not 5) onwards until later finished, retired, general recall, abandoned or postponed.
I asked Dave Perry pretty much that during a webinar on the changes. He said the reason for the wording change in the signals was to clarify that 'November' does not abandon races already completed (because they of course had 'started'). Thus 'In Progress' was added. He said that before the race starts, I.E. before the division flag is dropped, you would just fly AP over Hotel or Alpha, sending the boats home. And ashore you could abandon it without signals, or simply not hold the race, not really 'abandoned'. After the start, use November.
Mark, With respect, I do not think that the two signals you suggest are necessary. When you display N this abandons the race that has started, and effectively postpones all races for other classes that have yet to begin their starting procedure. Under 27.3, the N flag also applies to races that have not started.
Gordon, Also with respect. I think Mark is correct. Otherwise this makes the change in race signals N over A or H meaningless. I can accept, as argued by others above, that a race could be considered 'in progress' from the prep signal but this does not apply to other fleets waiting to start. Yes it is before the start but the race is not 'in progress' as required by Race Signals. However, as I said in my first post on this topic Does it really matter? If a CV displays N or AP with either A or H and pulls up anchor and goes home I am pretty sure the boats will follow! Any request for redress due to possible incorrect procedure by the RC would undoubtedly lead to an interesting discussion but I am not sure a boat could show that its (none) score in a race that has not been sailed may have affected his position in the series. I do agree however it would be nice if the rules aligned in such a way that we did not need to have this sort of discussion. Meanwhile while you are all freezing in the UK and have lots of time to study the rules, we are in the high thirties C and out there using them! No problems with race signals so far!
I don't think you are missing anything. I believe 27.3 and 30.2 should have been updated when the signals were changed.
I have always been taught that you cannot abandon anything that has not started and have always postponed a race before the starting signal.
The new wording to the signals confirms this but I agree that 27.3 and 30.2 probably conflict with this view.in in conflict.
But does it really matter?
RRS 27.3 has always said
Before the starting signal, the race committee may for any reason ... abandon the race.
But I agree with John S that it doesn't really matter.
In the early versions of the 2025 RRS, RRS 32.3 said
32.3 To abandon the race, the race committee shall display flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds.
and the Race Signals with flag N only applied to races in progress.
The effect of this was that RRS 32.3 told us the only way in which a race committee could abandon a race, that is by displaying the flag signals that meant 'races in progress are abandoned', so according to the rules there was no way that a race committee could abandon any race that wasn't 'in progress'.
RRS 32.3 has been hastily changed in the 1 Jan 2025 corrected version of RRS 2025 (Summarised here) to
32.3 To abandon a race in progress, the race committee shall display flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds.
So this rule no longer restricts how a race committee can abandon a race other than a race in progress.
So a race committee can abandon a race before it is 'in progress' or starts, and after it finishes (however unwise that may be).
It's just that there isn't a race signal to signal that a race not yet in progress is abandoned.
So strictly speaking, flying flag N on the club flag mast on a racing morning to tell people that there's no racing isn't correct.
https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Changes-to-RRS-2025-2028-that-Affect-Race-Management-rev-1.7.2025.pdf
Therefore, after the starting sequence has started and before the race has started, you can postpone or abandon that race, and send the boats ashore or tell them that there is no more racing that day by displaying flag AP, AP over H, or AP over A, with two sounds, or flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds (see rule 27.3).
A race is in progress after the warning signal, and whilst any boat is still racing.
After this you can abandon but not with a flag signal.
Surely the race is not in progress at the warning signal. Boats are not even racing until the prep signal. I would have thought that the race was not in progress until at least one boat meets the definition of start.
Is there any documentation from WS that supports the meaning of ‘in progress’ to be from the warning signal?
I respect everyones responses to my question but they all appear to be opinions rather than a definition that can be used in a protest room
Comments made on a site such as this can only be opinions as WS are the only body that can give a to give definitive response.
I seriously doubt that scenario you describe will ever end up in a protest room but if you do need a definitive response you should raise the matter through the Q and A process at World Sailing.
RRS 32 refers to abandoning a race after the starting signal, even if one or more boats have finished
RRS 61.4(c) allows the PC to abandon a race following a redress hearing, when all boats have finished
Therefore, a race may be abandoned before or after the starting signal.
If for instance, after the starting signal of a class, but while other classes have yet to start, by displaying N the RC abandons all races that have started, and all those that have yet to start.
I would suggest:
Display AP when no class has started, or when the RC does not which to curtail a race that has started.
Display N when the RC wishes to curtail a race that has started but and there are boats still sailing. This effectively postpones all races that have yet to start.
After the starting sequence has started and before the race has started, you can postpone or abandon that race, and send the boats ashore or tell them that there is no more racing that day by displaying flag AP, AP over H, or AP over A, with two sounds, or flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds (see rule 27.3).
With respect, I do not think that the two signals you suggest are necessary.
When you display N this abandons the race that has started, and effectively postpones all races for other classes that have yet to begin their starting procedure. Under 27.3, the N flag also applies to races that have not started.
Also with respect.
I think Mark is correct. Otherwise this makes the change in race signals N over A or H meaningless. I can accept, as argued by others above, that a race could be considered 'in progress' from the prep signal but this does not apply to other fleets waiting to start. Yes it is before the start but the race is not 'in progress' as required by Race Signals.
However, as I said in my first post on this topic Does it really matter? If a CV displays N or AP with either A or H and pulls up anchor and goes home I am pretty sure the boats will follow!
Any request for redress due to possible incorrect procedure by the RC would undoubtedly lead to an interesting discussion but I am not sure a boat could show that its (none) score in a race that has not been sailed may have affected his position in the series.
I do agree however it would be nice if the rules aligned in such a way that we did not need to have this sort of discussion.
Meanwhile while you are all freezing in the UK and have lots of time to study the rules, we are in the high thirties C and out there using them! No problems with race signals so far!
In short, I don't think a race can start while N is in the sky.. This may be an unintended outcome of N, but it is quite useful.
I agree but think it is technically different for N over A or H and AP over N or H.
Still think all the boats will go home whatever is flown!