Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

RRS 86.1 - Changes to the Racing Rules

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Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer

I recently competed in a night-race and the SI's for the race had the following  ... under Section 1 "Rules" ..

"[DP] From sunset to sunrise, a boat shall not come within 5 boat lengths of another boat"

I didn't say anything prior to the race, but was going to offer to the RC that this SI is likely illegal as it probably changes Definitions as well as Part 2 RRS's and that they shouldn't include it next year.  As far as I can tell, no protests were lodged based upon that SI, but if pressed would make a mess of a lot of situations.

Also, sunset to sunrise is pretty arbitrary as on a clear evening, boats are clearly visible until nautical twilight .. which is about 1 hr later

Thoughts?

Angelo

Created: 17-Jul-10 18:06

Comments

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Beau Vrolyk
Nationality: United States
0

Many of us draft SIs to revert to the local or international rules for inland waters or the ocean as appropriate, from local sunset to sunrise. The use of local sunset and sunrise is an attempt to avoid an argument about what "visibility" means, as that can vary tremendously in a hearing.

Source here: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent

Created: 17-Jul-10 18:42
Bill Handley
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0

Sunrise to sunset is pretty standard wording and is used because it is a specific time and not open to dispute. You do not make it clear what rules applied at the time as it is not unusual for the RRS to be replaced by the IRPCAS between sunset and sunrise as provided by the final sentence of the preable to Part 2.

The SI is a nonsense as it requires two or more boats not to come within 5 boat lengths of each other - who's hull length ? If they get closer which boat came within 5 lengths of which or should they both be disqualified ?

The SI is unquestionably invalid as it purports to change part 2 rules in contravention of rule 86.1(b). A competent jury would ignore this SI and decide any protest based on the applicable rules. Any boat relying on the SI that was disadvantaged may seek redress under rule 62.1(a) as publishing this is an improper action although she may struggle on the "through no fault of her own" aspect.

Created: 17-Jul-10 19:10
John Super
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0

From time to time I have used Sunset as a time to base a race time limit on. In the SI I refer to Sunset as published in the local tide chart book which everyone on San Francisco Bay usually has a copy of. For "Beer Can" fleets some boats do not have runing lights so ending the racing prior to when the law rquires lights seems like the simplest way to take away any lighting issues.

Created: 17-Jul-10 19:15
Leo Reise
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0

The instruction does seem to be a little strange. I am not sure how many rules that may alter, either RRS or COLREGS, or how boats are supposed to react if they do come closure the 5 boat-lengths.

 

The preamble to Part 2 gives a format for the wording that might be used.

 

The time of sunset and sunrise is easy to establish as it is published locally for most locations.  My experience is the NOR and SIs will give you the times at which the COLREGS will be in effect.

 

As an example, the NOR of a distance race to be sailed in a week or so read:

RRS Part 2 will be replaced by Part B, the Steering and Sailing Rules, of the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREGS) between 2200 hours and 0600 hours.

 

A quick lookup of times for the area shows that on the race days in question, sunset is 2108 hours, and nautical twilight ends at 2224 hours.  Likewise, the next morning, nautical twilight begins at 0459 hours and sunrise at 0615 hours.  The following days show about 2 minutes less light each day.

 

Just my thoughts

 

 

Created: 17-Jul-10 19:19
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Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0

The toss over the fence regarding sunrise/sunset might have muddled up the real issue at hand .. and that was the 5 boat-lengh invisible shield and how in the heck that is supposed to be enforced.

For context, this race is specifically a night-race .. started less than 2 hrs before sunset and slated for up to 50nm+ with the requesite Bloody's/Breakfast in the morning.  What might make this a little different is that the course's legs can be rather short .. some only a couple miles .. and having multiple boats at the roundings wouldn't be unusual, especially in OD fleets.

Now that I think about it, the finish line wasn't 5 boat lengths long.  I actually ended up in an upwind tacking duel with a competitor the last 20 min to the finish.  We kept more distance than usual, but to be honest, hard to say it was 5 boat lengths between us.

Based on the SI .. a port tacker that's crossing ahead of a STB tacker by 4 boat lengths is supposed to tack away?  I agree, it boggles the mind how that would apply in most cases.

 

Created: 17-Jul-10 19:57
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John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0

Angelo said

I recently competed in a night-race and the SI's for the race had the following  ... under Section 1 "Rules" ..

"[DP] From sunset to sunrise, a boat shall not come within 5 boat lengths of another boat"

I didn't say anything prior to the race, but was going to offer to the RC that this SI is likely illegal as it probably changes Definitions as well as Part 2 RRS's and that they shouldn't include it next year.  As far as I can tell, no protests were lodged based upon that SI, but if pressed would make a mess of a lot of situations.

Also, sunset to sunrise is pretty arbitrary as on a clear evening, boats are clearly visible until nautical twilight .. which is about 1 hr later

Thoughts?

I'm intrigued.

What RRS Definitions do you think this changes, and how?

What rules of Part 2 do you think this changes and how? 

Angelo also said

Based on the SI .. a port tacker that's crossing ahead of a STB tacker by 4 boat lengths is supposed to tack away?  I agree, it boggles the mind how that would apply in most cases.

Surely it's simple enough:  don't go close in the dark.

In the grand old days the prohibition was expressed briefly as 'no luffing after dark'.  That was in the days of the hard luff with contact and the safety implications were obvious.  Those elevated risks have been eliminated in the modern rules by rules 14 and 16.

There is very little need, these days to switch off the RRS after dark, so the SI is probably unneccessarily risk averse.

Created: 17-Jul-10 23:15
Bill Handley
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0

John - you ask which part 2 rules this changes and how and my thoughts would be pretty well all of them as follows.

Rules 10-13 if the r-o-w boat comes within 5 lengths of the keep clear boat she has to take avoiding action in contravention of these rules.

Rule 14 it requires the r-o-w boat to take avoiding action before it is apparent that the keep clear boat is not keeping clear

Rules 15 & 16 requires the r-o-w boat to give the keep clear boat more room than the rules require which is just enough room to keep clear.

Rule 17 effectively disapplies the rule as no boat can become overlapped within two of her hull lengths.

Rule 18 a boat entitled to mark room may not take it if it brings her within 5 lengths of another boat .

Rule 19 a boat entitled to room may not take itif it brings her within 5 lengths of another boat.

Rule 20 if a boat responds with "you tack" she must not only give the other boat room to tack but also avoid her by more than 5 boat lengths.

That should be enough to be going on with.

Created: 17-Jul-11 06:53
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Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0

John, I would add to Bill's list in the Definition rhelm that this 5 BL buffer at least alters or makes mute the concept of:

  • Keep Clear .. as if you are 5 boat lengths away one can always change course without taking avoiding action
  • Zone .. as a 5BL bubble around a boat makes the 3BL zone a different animal maybe .. if the 5BL bubble is basically an extention of the boat itself, then what does that do to the rules in and around the zone?

... and if those def's are touched, every occurance they are used needs to be thought through. 

Also think about the obligations of boats leaving a mark with one other boat arriving and how that's going to work if the first boat rounds and is leeward/starboard-boat to an approacher  .. does the approaching boat have to sail away 5 BL?  What if you are 1st to round but will end up on port after the rounding .. do you need to sail away 5BL or maybe not complete your rounding to stay away from approaching STB boats?

I also want to be clear about something here .. I don't blame the RC for trying to put something in the SI's to encourge safety at night .. nobody wants a nightime collision.   I just don't think how it was done was workable or done correctly or legally under the rules.  The reason I posted here was to get input on how it might be done in a workable way such that I could offer suggestions.

Also to those who have offered the COLREGS solution between sunset/rise, I think that might work when you are talking about a long distance point-to-point race or out-n-back race where it's mainly open water racing with a rounding at the far end and mainly boundry-marks and shorelines.  This wasn't the case in this race.

I just reviewed the course we sailed again.  In the 7.5 hrs of racing (~50nm) we had 12 mark roundings.  Some of those were 30-45-deg jogs in the course, but most were real roundings of 90deg or more .. and all but the first 3 of those roundings were done after sunset by design.

Thanks for the input and help sorting this out :-)
 

Ang

Created: 17-Jul-11 13:32
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Beau Vrolyk
Nationality: United States
0

Angleo, 

There are various organizations who have tried to increase the safety and decrease the risk of collision. One of the best tested is the Super Yacht Association, which has a modified version of the RRS and directly addresses the issues you've brought up.  For example, they specify a minimum distance of 40 meters between boats, see Definitions "Keep Clear" in the at the attached link.

These folks started out with COLREGS and eventually evolved to this World Sailing set of changes to the RSS. You might find these helpful. From the World Sailing website: Super Yacht Racing Rules
 

Created: 17-Jul-11 16:42
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0

Wow Beau, that link cuts right to the heart of it doesn't it?  What a great link and a great way to see a thoughtout evaluation of all the places such a change must touch.

In the SY Rules example, there is a diff set of rules and defs which incorporate this increased buffer idea, but that still begs the question whether or not it is possible under the normal WS RRS's for an RC to incorporate those changes simply through an events SI's?  

As shown in the SY RRS's, changes to both the Definitions and Part 2 rules seem to be required to cross the T's and dot the I's ... and 86.1(b) referencing 86.1(a) states that those can not be changed in an SI or NOR.

Ang

Created: 17-Jul-11 17:00
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Beau Vrolyk
Nationality: United States
0
Angelo,
I think that's why this ended up being a task for World Sailing (As opposed to any particular National Authority). I'm sure they can do whatever they like to the RRS. I would assume that one could just use the SY RRS in a night sailing event, other than the issues of minimum size etc... It would certainly get some competitors scratching their heads.
I don't know the entire history, but I do know that for many years the skippers of these monsters just used COLREGS. Unlike most small boat sailors, they all know COLREGS quite well. Then the fleet decided to move to the RRS, but wanted to preserve some of the safety features of COLREGS. Keep in mind that these monsters had some spectacular collisions, more than one resulting in the sinking of a competitor. They are now intensely focused on keeping boats apart, something the owners strongly support.
Cheers,

Beau
Created: 17-Jul-11 20:27
Bill Handley
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0
Ange - as we host the Pendennis Super Cup here which is raced under Appendix SY the thought popped into my head earlier this evening that maybe the answer may lie in that direction. Unfortunately (well not that unfortunately actually) I had to go out and race the Falmouth Working Boat in the Tuesday evening race and I have only just got back.
I think the whole of the SY rules and appendix shows that you can't just tinker with the RRS and to effect a minimum distance between boats requires a root and branch change to the rules. Because the SYs have the time, resources and let's be honest the money to effectively write their own rules and have them adopted by ISAF (now WS) they can do this. I don't think that any class not qualifying as a SY can adopt these rule without breaking the RRS.
Created: 17-Jul-11 22:33
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Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Bill .. I agree regarding adopting the SY RRS's as we're back to a Catch-22 .. as they would have to change the Def's to tailor the separation value and the zone-distance value ... the RRS's won't allow that and the RRS won't allow a change to the Introduction where SY's are defined.  Oh well .. though 40m isn't far off from the 5 boat lengths they were after .. having a 300m zone might be a stretch.
Ang
PS ... I've forwarded the link to the SY-RRS as well as the link to this discussion to the sponsoring club's RC along with a summary of the discussion.  Thanks all for the input and info!
PS PS ... The Falmouth looks like great fun!  We've got the log canoe's and the skipjacks here in the Cheasapeake.  Never raced one, but certainly are beautiful to watch!
Created: 17-Jul-11 23:39
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