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Stbd TR mark rounding - Tacking at the mark
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
Judge In Training
0
Now that 18.3 only applies at a port-hand buoy, that affects team racing digital N's to some extent. Can you now tack inside the zone at a starboard rounding? I'm having trouble thinking through what rules apply in the situation where a tack is completed within the zone, and is clear ahead, and a leeward boat then becomes overlapped inside. I've diagrammed it below (please forgive the zone appearing oversized).
Created: 19-Oct-22 01:22
Comments
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
Club Race Officer
National Judge
National Umpire
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See the second sentence of D1.1(b) (changes to 18.2(b)). Yellow is clear ahead when she enters the zone and therefore Blue must give her room. Yellow is not required to give Blue room even though Blue later establishes an leeward overlap. If Blue establishes an overlap before Yellow enters the zone then Yellow is required to give Blue room.
Created: 19-Nov-04 17:01
P
John Allan
Certifications:
National Judge
Regional Race Officer
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So, as diagrammed, Y does not tack in the zone at all.
Try shifting Y's track half a boat length to windward. Now
Y reaches the zone before she passes head to wind. Rule 18 does not apply because boats are on opposite tacks, still on a beat to windward (rule 18.1a).
Y then passes head to wind, boats are now on same tack,one of them in the zone, so rule 18 applies.
Rule 18.3 does not apply because this is not a mark to be left to port.
Rule 18.2b does not apply because boats were not overlapped nor was Y clear ahead when she reached the zone (because the definition of Clear Astern, Clear Ahead. Overlap did not apply between boats on opposite tacks).
So it is rule 18.2a that applies: if boats become overlapped, the boat overlapped outside shall give the boat overlapped inside mark-room, thus Y is required to give B mark-room.
Created: 19-Nov-04 22:10
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Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
Judge In Training
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Thanks J Allan!
Created: 19-Nov-04 22:18
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Grant Baldwin
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
International Judge
National Umpire
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Agree with JC if the scenario depicted in the diagram is correct. If we were go with JA's scenario change, it is my view that no part of RRS 18 would apply to this situation...straight RRS 11, amigos.
TR Call E10 may be helpful.
Created: 19-Nov-04 23:00
Mohamed Zanzoul
Nationality: Morocco
Certifications:
International Judge
0
In my view blue must keep clear.
Created: 19-Nov-05 05:40
P
John Allan
Certifications:
National Judge
Regional Race Officer
0
Greg,
In my amended scenario, where Y reaches the zone before passing head to wind, from the instant that Y does pass head to wind, one of the boats is in the zone.
Which of the exceptions listed in rule 18.1 (a) to (d) do you say applies such that rule 18 does not apply?
Created: 19-Nov-05 11:09
P
John Allan
Certifications:
National Judge
Regional Race Officer
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Mohamed,
What rule requires B to keep clear please?
Created: 19-Nov-05 11:30
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Michael Butterfield
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
International Judge
International Umpire
International Race Officer
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18.2.a but check out 18.2(f) where the boat is unable to give room.
Created: 19-Nov-05 11:51
Paolo Benigni
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
National Umpire
National Judge
0
hi all, I agree withJohn in a team race but in a fleet race 18.2.a applies
Created: 19-Nov-15 11:40
P
Michael Butterfield
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
International Judge
International Umpire
International Race Officer
0
18.2.a applies for both fleet and team racing. Blue is entitled to room. The unusual team racing change to 18.2.b does not apply as it is the wrong boat that tacks it only applies when the boat clear astern tacks in the zone. This allows the boat ahead to set a mark trap and not be forced under the usual rules to give room.
Try shifting Y's track half a boat length to windward. Now
Y reaches the zone before she passes head to wind. Rule 18 does not apply because boats are on opposite tacks, still on a beat to windward (rule 18.1a).
Y then passes head to wind, boats are now on same tack,one of them in the zone, so rule 18 applies.
Rule 18.3 does not apply because this is not a mark to be left to port.
Rule 18.2b does not apply because boats were not overlapped nor was Y clear ahead when she reached the zone (because the definition of Clear Astern, Clear Ahead. Overlap did not apply between boats on opposite tacks).
So it is rule 18.2a that applies: if boats become overlapped, the boat overlapped outside shall give the boat overlapped inside mark-room, thus Y is required to give B mark-room.
TR Call E10 may be helpful.
In my amended scenario, where Y reaches the zone before passing head to wind, from the instant that Y does pass head to wind, one of the boats is in the zone.
Which of the exceptions listed in rule 18.1 (a) to (d) do you say applies such that rule 18 does not apply?
What rule requires B to keep clear please?
Blue is entitled to room.
The unusual team racing change to 18.2.b does not apply as it is the wrong boat that tacks it only applies when the boat clear astern tacks in the zone. This allows the boat ahead to set a mark trap and not be forced under the usual rules to give room.