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Race Committee & Race Management

Finish line in the course

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Anthony Pelletier
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • Club Race Officer
I'm PRO for a catamaran regatta that will include F18s and Hobie 16s. Since the F18s are significantly faster, the sailors want a shorter windward mark for the Hobies--makes sense. 
They also want the possibility of both an upwind or downwind finish. Start line below gate and downwind finish to starboard of signal boat. All good so far. 
The weird part, to me, is that the request the upwind finish to be upwind of the LOWER windward mark, which puts it in the upper third of the longer course. While it's not my favorite, I am OK with it as long as we make the finish line an obstruction that is restricted unless finishing. The regatta chair is pushing back on that. What are your opinions?


Created: Today 21:49

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Andrew Lesslie
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • Club Race Officer
I've run that 'nested' course configuration for club regattas where we have faster and slower fleets.  It works well as long as you have good mark setters.

The request to have the finish between the nearer and farther windward marks is indeed challenging and it would be simpler (and safer) to have it in the lower 1/3 of the course.

An alternative you might consider would be to have everyone sail the same course, but give the F18s three laps while the H16s sail two.
Created: Today 22:04
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
Anthony ... why not a classic diamond with the SL/FL in the middle?  You can still have 2 windward marks to separate the fleets. 
Created: Today 22:26
Eric Rimkus
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Why does the finish need to be restricted? What is the concern that you are trying to address?
Created: Today 22:29
Tom Shenstone
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Club Race Officer
You could lengthen the course at the bottom.  Two leeward marks or gates, appropriately spaced, with common start line and finish line.
Created: Today 22:36
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
I reckon I can learn a lot from some discussion here.

Why do cats want an extra windward leg?
Created: Today 23:18
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
Reply to: 21506 - John Allan
John .. I for one am always Jonesing for an upwind finish (as a competitor). 

We used to have them a lot .. now I can't remember the last time we did one.  IMO they are more fun than DW finishes and in a good size fleet there are last leg opportunities for place changes. 
Created: Today 23:24
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
The weird part, to me, is that the request the upwind finish to be upwind of the LOWER windward mark, which puts it in the upper third of the longer course. 

I'm guessing, but what I think they are trying to achieve is to avoid having the H16s sail a longer windward finishing leg up to the F18 windward mark, while still giving the F18 a beat to the finish for whatever masochistic multihull reason.
Created: Today 23:21
Matt Bounds
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • National Judge
A real problem is that F18s and Hobie 16s sail different angles, both upwind and downwind. F18s have a huge blind spot behind the gennaker.  Closing speeds are high in any significant breeze.

I have never seen a finish line between the two weather marks.

It would be much safer to have the upwind finish above the long weather mark.  The only real reason to have an upwind finish is to put the fleet closer to home on the last race of the day - both fleets would need to sail that direction anyway.  Both these fleets sail upwind just so they can sail downwind again - they generally don't want an extra upwind leg just because.

[Just as an aside, I raced Hobie 16s from 1973 until 2016; F18s from 2004-2012 and have been the Race Officer at both their North American / Canadian / US Championships more times than I can remember. I've raced on this type of course many times - without the finish line between the upwind marks.]


Created: Today 23:25
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