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The Racing Rules of Sailing

General Recall and Identified Boats

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Zak Bowdish
Nationality: United States
This weekend in a regatta, RC called a General Recall for a start in our 6 boat class. The RC then hailed “General Recall, the only boat not OCS was [our boat name].”  It seems that the RC identified all boats who were OCS. My question is what would redress look like if we protested RC? We did not, but could we have?
Created: Yesterday 17:03

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John Porter
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Judge
This is a conversation I have with people using Automated Starting Systems like RaceSense. The proper move would be to abandon, not General Recall as you've identified the boats. It would be reasonable to abandon for a reason affecting the fairness of the racing. Now, to your question about redress, I think it's probably a high bar to get redress. If they would have otherwise abandoned, has your score been made worse than if they did the proper signal of abandon? If yes, should they abandon the race and if they do, does that help your score? It's a grey area, but I think recognizing as a sailor that while they made the wrong signal, the race was still going to end is the healthy and happy answer. 
Created: Yesterday 17:17
Niko Kotsatos
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
J Porter, I don't agree that it would be strictly proper to abandon. Indeed, ending a race where only one boat manages to start correctly would be less fair, not moreso. If safe to do so, that one boat should be given the chance to sail in the race where they started better than anyone else.

As I note below, it's possible the RC is not able to manage that recall, but giving it a try is the most fair thing to do.
Created: Yesterday 17:59
Tom Shenstone
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Club Race Officer
We are all taught that you can call even an entire fleet OCS if you know them all to be over the line but the reality is that calling most of a fleet OCS is often unfair, and more often will infuriate most of the fleet.  So the RO is very likely to blow the race off.  Abandoning is better than a general recall, but why would a jury want to find fault with the RO's view that the start would have been unfair?

On a lighter real politik note, I have heard of a case where 90% of a fleet of racers who were powerful locally were called OCS in a race.  The jury backed the RO, but the OA never asked him back to participate in subsequent years.  
Created: Yesterday 19:31
Craig Priniski
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Coach Level 3
  • Club Race Officer
@Niko, I'm not sure abandoning after the fact is in the cards anyway, you must take into account the impact to the racers that sailed that next start properly.  If I asked for redress, it's because I was impacted. so say if the restart was ugly and I finished last, I now have grounds to ask. Redress may be average points for that race, rather than undoing it for all the other boats. You are righting a wrong, necessarily by deleting completed races for one redress. In this case only one boat started properly, it would be a tough hill to climb to argue you would have come back from the OCS had you sailed it out, but I suppose you could try..
Created: Yesterday 20:30
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Reply to: 21523 - John Porter
If I asked for redress, it's because I was impacted. so say if the restart was ugly and I finished last, I now have grounds to ask.
Assuming that signalling general recall was an improper action by the race committee, RRS 61.4(b) requires a boat' score or place in a race or series to have been made, significantly worse through no fault of her own.

I don't think I buy the argument that a boat’s place or score in the restarted or resailed race coul  be made worse by the general recall.  They had as much chance to start advantageously as ever  other boat in the race.

We're getting int  what if territory here, but maybe, if the restarted race didn't run (was abandoned, or passed the 'no warning signal after' time) and boats lost a discard, so losing the discard was caused by the delay caused by the improper general recall, you could say a boat's series score was made worse and give redress, which might be average points to all boats, and the race to count in the series.
Created: Yesterday 23:28
John Sweeney
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
This is not subject to redress.  Not the least of which being, there are no finish positions to correct.
However, in interest of fairness, the proper action is for the RC to allow the race to proceed by individually calling all others OCS.  It is as patently unfair to deny a proper start to one boat as it would be to ignore one OCS.  No matter how many boats are in the class, a fair start is the sole obligation the RC has to the competitors, if the minority or majority of boats get it wrong they are not owed another chance. 
Created: Yesterday 17:48
Tips
50 WIND
2026-06-03 - Niko Kotsatos
Tom Shenstone
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Club Race Officer
The truth is that the OCS procedure can easily create unfairness - who is where when signalled, how fast it's signalled - by affecting when each boat can clear the line.  So blowing off a start largely blown up by the racers is to me a better option than pushing on.
Created: Yesterday 19:37
Craig Priniski
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Coach Level 3
  • Club Race Officer
@Tom, Everyone is signaled at the same time X-Flag up with sound. 
Created: Yesterday 20:21
Niko Kotsatos
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
All the below assumes there is no additional rule requiring a timely hail of the OCS boats in the NOR/SI.

In a six boat class, a really good race committee should be able to identify the five OCS boats and recall them AND clear them.

Trouble determining who has cleared is what an RC that's unable to accurately make the recall could stand on. I once did the "all boats except" x-flag but was completely unable to determine which boats had cleared, especially since we didn't have a round-the-ends rule in effect. Making this call would require excellent work from the RC team and a lot of confidence, as well as some willingness to try, and then to abandon if needed. Since this was not done, it might be worth a heart-to-heart with the PRO that day. What would it take for that PRO to be able to make the call of five boats over? Do they know they can wait to hail numbers for many seconds while gathering data? Do they have a recorder onboard who is writing down everything they say? Are they running an audio recorder at the starts? Most club RC's are just not equipped to call more than say 3-4 boats OCS.
Created: Yesterday 17:56
John Porter
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Judge
@Niko, you certainly bring up the fairness to the other boat. I assumed and didn't articulate that the reason for 5 of 6 boats being OCS was something unfair. Perhaps a late wind shift, a line that wasn't square to the wind, or some other reason caused the boats to be OCS. If it is a perfectly square line with nothing wrong, I have no issue with letting the race run. Many PROs fail to look at the line in such instances, and declaring yourself perfect with such a large percentage of the fleet OCS is often the wrong answer. 
Created: Yesterday 18:24
Dustin Romey
Nationality: United States
Long long ago in a galaxy far far away, my time in College Sailing, the late, great Tufts coach, Kenny Legler, was famous for this.  His philosophy on OCS was that a general recall rewards the people who did not start properly, and punishes the people who did start properly.  So it was the RCs responsibility to be in a place to be able to identify the boats who were OCS.  There was no excuse to not be able to identify them. The only reasons for a general recall was a procedural errors or a major wind shift or the like. Not be able to identify a boat OCS was simply unacceptable.

While racing at Tufts, it was not strange to hear a hail after a start, "Everyone is over except 7 and 11," in a 20 boat fleet.

Years later at Key West Race Week I heard people in the Melges 24 fleet grumbling that the PRO had called around 60 boats in a 100 boat fleet OCS during the first race. They were actually rounding the windward mark as the VHF was still having bow numbers read off.  My first question, "who's the PRO? Legler?"  And in fact it was. Surprise surprise, that didn't happen again.  Everyone was sure to start properly.

If you ask me, Ken was right about this.  It's one of those things that Race Sense gets very right.
Created: Yesterday 19:16
Niko Kotsatos
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
J Porter, your point is well taken.

And Dustin, all, I freely admit that my opinion is also strongly influenced by Kenny Legs. Indeed I was channeling him all those years ago in my failed attempt to call ~14/18 boats over in a college race. For sure there are excuses for amateur/club RC's. We cannot all be Legler, but we can darn well try!
Created: Yesterday 19:34
Matt Bounds
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • National Judge
I could make the argument that this entire thread is inappropriate inasmuch as there's enough information in the OP to identify the race officer by name (at least for me).

If you want to talk generalities, race officers dance a fine line between being "fair" and having a group of people waiting for you with torches and pitchforks at the end of the day.  We all want to make sure everybody has a good time and we get invited back. We're not talking about the Olympics here.  This particular instance occurred at a marketing event where a sailboat race breaks out.

Was it fair to the one boat that started properly? Probably not. Was it politically wise to give it another try? Probably.  Was it smart to make the "everybody was over except . . . " announcement after a general recall? Almost certainly not.
Created: Yesterday 19:36
Zak Bowdish
Nationality: United States
I wasn’t calling out the RO and I don’t believe I made any indication they even erred in my OP. My ask was in a situation such as this, what might redress, if any, look like? I’m genuinely curious and not intending to call out any individual. 
Created: Yesterday 19:49
Craig Priniski
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Coach Level 3
  • Club Race Officer
I would say that is technically an error or omission of the RC. If they literally could identify all the premature staters that is not appropriate to issue a general recall.  It's more of a technicality than an egregious error, but it is not the proper action. The one thing though is the hail is not a binding judgement; it could have been informal shorthand "*practically* all of you were over but boat XYZ" A jury would be reluctant to overturn RC judgement lightly. Could you request a hearing? Yes but that's always true. You have a valid rules point it's just an issue of whether that was an official position or an informational hail of most of the other boats being over. 
Created: Yesterday 20:17
Keith Jamieson
Certifications:
  • Fleet Measurer
  • Judge In Training
This has happened before where an RO could identify 2 boats from a fleet that were NOT OCS but the rest of the fleet were.  The result stood.  
If I were RO It does seem unfair so if that many boats were going to be over, I would AP the start and reset.  
Created: Yesterday 20:30
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
RRS 29.2

When
at the starting signal the race committee is unable to 
identify boats that are on the course side of the starting line or 
to which rule 30 applies, or there has been an error in the 
starting procedure, the race committee may signal a general 
recall

If the race committee was unable to identify all boats at the starting signal, but later did so after signalling general recall, there is no improper action.
Created: Yesterday 20:54
Craig Priniski
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Coach Level 3
  • Club Race Officer
Reply to: 21538 - John Allan
Maybe, but that's not what the RO said. Best case argument for the RO is that it was informational not official or literal information. 
Created: Yesterday 21:05
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Lets lay out the requirements for RRS 30 and 32.

IF
  • The race committee is unable to identify all boats over early
OR
  • There has been an error in the starting procedure,

The race committee may signal general recall

ELSE

  • IF
    • There is some reason directly affecting the safety or fairness of the competition
The race committee may abandon the race

ELSE

The race committee shall signal individual recall.

Created: Yesterday 23:38
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