Protest Committee & Hearing Procedures

Should Vakaros racesence be part of standard Protest committees practice?

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Doc Sullivan
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Umpire
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As we all know the protestee and protestor along with their witnesses come to the table with different points of view.  While at a hypothetical event in upstate NY we had just that happen. As I am a big fan of the 15 minute protest or even better 3 minute justice we were stuck with figuring out who was telling the better story. After the hearing was closed, and one party showed up late with a snapshot of the situation we elected to go to the esteemed PRO to figure out if we were correct. What we found out was the whole race tracking ( accurate to 1/2 meter) is recorded and you can go to the incident and actually see how the boats acted and reacted with amazing accuracy. We reopened the hearing and changed our decision based on what we saw. 
Typically the protestor/protestee comes in with the evidence and arranges to have it seen. In this case neither the protestor or protestee knew how to do this and no one on the PC knew as well.  Having this knowledge prior to hearing testimony and witnesses could have made this 60+ minute process to a 15 minute discussion and we would have gotten the results right the first time 
What is the experience of others?  I would propose that standard practice would be this tracking information be a standard part of the protestor process to be viewed by the panel and protestor protestee before any questions are asked to expedite hearings and be more likely to get it right the first time 
Comments? Suggestions?
Doc
Created: Today 12:56

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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
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Doc .. I had a similar thought from a recent hearing with publicly available (YouTube broadcasted) drone footage of the incident.  I had a new judge on the panel so I followed the normal script .. but had we put that video up front .. as evidence presented by the PC .. things would have gone a lot quicker I think. 

We were prepared as a PC for the new judge to swap sides and present the video if neither party did.  In the end, one party eventually presented it, so no need for that step. 

PS: meaning above that if the entire panel was experienced judges, I may have suggested presenting the video up front. 
Created: Today 13:01
Warren Nethercote
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It is a long time since I was in this game, but i can recall us considering reopening a hearing at a J70 Worlds based on the claim that the previous day's video recap told a different story. When we looked at the video we were happy to see that we got a complex situation correct. If there is suspicion of error a PC should do something about it, by whatever means available. I am sceptical of electronics accuracy, but in the event of grossly different stories a gps-based system, errors and all, may allow the correct choice.
Created: Today 13:11
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John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Regional Judge
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Doc, I agree, and we recently learned something about RaceSense that I think is worth adding to this discussion. After a recent hearing, I was asked to review a proposed reopening regarding the interpretation of the RaceSense replay. That led me to Doug Wake, RaceSense Director at Vakaros, with some deliberately open-ended technical questions about exactly what we are looking at on the screen.

One important thing we learned is that the animated boats are more than icons following GPS tracks. Their orientation is based on the device's magnetic heading, and the animation uses the geometry of the particular class, including hull shape, bow offset, and orientation. That's important because heading and course over ground are not the same thing. The GPS track tells us where the boat traveled; the magnetic heading tells us where the boat was pointing. Doug specifically cautioned against rotating a boat to make it tangent to its GPS track because that substitutes COG for the measured heading. Vakaros also told us that the displayed orientation should normally be relied upon unless there is an obvious reason to suspect magnetic interference or a calibration problem, which might show up as a boat apparently traveling sideways.

So I'm very much with you on making RaceSense evidence readily available to the parties and protest committee. But I think there's a second piece: we need to teach judges what the RaceSense data actually represents before we start treating the replay like instant replay in football. Otherwise, very precise data can still be interpreted incorrectly. I've put together a short technical guidance paper based on Doug's answers and have asked both Vakaros and the GYA Race Management Committee to review it before I circulate it more broadly.

This technology could absolutely help us get to your "15-minute protest" more often, but only if the people sitting around the table understand what they're looking at.

Created: Today 13:14
Jonathan Bresler
300
Would suggest that there are two stages to each protest determination.  First, to establish the facts, to determine what actually happened.  Typically, this is done by each side stating their memories of what occurred.  Second, applying the Racing Rules of Sailing to the facts as accepted by the committee.

Vakaros RaceSense, or another GPS based track, of one or both boats movements, provides a substantial portion of the information needed to determine what happened.  Does not help with hails and other communications.   

Can't see any downside to using the data from Vakaros RaceSense, or another GPS based track, whenever available.   Similarly, for GoPro footage or video recorded.

What are the reasons for excluding such sources?

Note: John D. Farris said above "we need to teach judges what the RaceSense data actually represents".  Agreed.  
Created: Today 13:25
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