Thanks, I think...  My thinking is if you are compelled to break another rule, that it is not the soonest "possible" time.  Whether you hit the mark or not you retain your other rights and obligations under part 2 (windward-leeward) so hold on until you can sail well clear.  Lord knows I still sail with people who think they can take a penalty whenever though... 

re: " ..  compelled to break another rule"

This is why I constructed the question as I did and listed P & I flags separately from Z/U/B flag.  

Does a boat "break a rule" if they are OCS under P-flag? ...under I-flag? 

Being OCS is against the rules, only the penalty changes with the flag rules I would say.  Rule 29 is still a rule

It's pretty clear to me that RRS 30.2/3/4 are constructed as a rule that can be broken ... " .. no part of a boat's hull shall be ... ".

However, RRS 29.1 is constructed differently as a condition for having a proper start.  It's not clear to me that a boat breaks a rule by being OCS under P-flag .. they simply did not start until they correct their starting error.

DNS means the boat came to the event but chose not to start OCS means they were on course side and should be scores as such (Appendix A) Failure to sail the course is also a rules violation, just not a part 2, the penalty is correcting your error. (this is also why you can get redress if the RC doesn't signal you OCS, you were not given an opportunity to take correcting action) 

The requirement is that she must get well clear as soon after the incident as possible. Waiting for boats to pass her may be the best way of getting well clear, because in a crowd, sailing any other course may interfere with others.  

Before the gun she can take turns as long as no boat has to change course to avoid her. If one does she is not well clear. However, once she has started her turns a boat must not change course so as to interfere unless it is her PC so can only do this after the gun.

P & I Flag - she must dip start or round the end as required before starting so no rule broken if she crosses the line before the gun.  She may cross the line to course side to a position where others are unlikely to sail and take turns if that is a good way to get clear or she may sit tight until they have passed her before taking turns.

Z, U or Black flag she will be DSQ if she crosses, so crossing line early is not really an option. Even if she exonerates she is still DSQ. She should sit tight until they have all passed her then take her turns.

I agree with Angelo, rule 29 is a rule but it addresses what the RC must (29.1) or may (29.2) do. I don't think a boat can break rule 29.

If a boat is OCS under P or I flag and doesn't correct her error, she's failed to sail the race and broken 28.1. But per case 112, she doesn't break the rule unless/until she finishes without correcting her error. So it's possible for a boat to sail to the course side and take a penalty without breaking another rule, unlike the Z/U/Black scenario.

Richard, I agree with your advice, but in the case of Z, U, or Black Flag we have seen that a boat wrongly compelled to OCS may seek redress.
So perhaps there is some flexibility there, though I would not want to test it.

How is the boat wrongly compelled? Either crossing the line early is the first opportunity or it is not, there is no requiring boats not to go OCS if you want to look at it that way.  There are consequences for doing so however. 
Under a minute to go I'd say you have a solid case for the first opportunity being after the start, over a minute well your sitting there an awful long time doing nothing...  I don't think there's a rule or a case that's definitive.  

Now for Pat 2.... What if the part 2 infraction was not heading up over the line for a leeward boat? Can you get protested and continue to sit there so you don't go OCS?? 

I'd have two issues with that:

1. Is the windward boat knowingly breaking rule 11? Is she breaking rule 2 and ineligible for a turns penalty?

2. If the windward boat breaks 11 and takes a turns penalty when she would otherwise have been OCS or broken rule 30, did she gain a significant advantage? I'd say maybe under P or I, and almost definitely under Z/U/Black.

A corollary question is whether the protesting boat would be savvy enough to sustain her protest after she saw the other boat do turns.  

It’s all interesting to consider.   I can make the argument that a boat does not break any rule by being OCS at the gun under both P and I flags.   Like P-flag, a boat under I-flag does not break 30.1 at the point they cross the line, rather they break 30.1 when they do not go around the end and correct their starting error. 

A boat sitting at the RC end with 50 secs to go after hitting the stand-off, I’m thinking they can’t wait under I or P flag.  They can quickly cross, get on the STB side of the RC and do 1 turn. 

A boat in the middle of the line needing to do 2 turns … I think they have a better case to wait under P/I flag. 

In all cases of U/Z/B flags, I agree that a boat can wait behind the line as crossing clearly breaks a rule. 

Generally, I agree with Angelo but a P flag should not be flying 59 seconds before the start.  Under the I flag, if going OCS after a pre-start foul is the quickest way to get clear, the boat should do so.  Then, after completing the required number of turns, she must return around an end of the line before starting.

John re: " P flag should not be flying 59 seconds before the start."

Thanks John .. of course and sorry for using lazy shortcut language.  "a P-flag start" to mean a start that does not include I/U/Z/B flags.

Basic Reason

The main thrust of this discussion seems to be whether being 'compelled' to break a rule (or suffer the disadvantage of being OCS) makes it not possible for Boat A, not otherwise obstructed in the direction over the starting line, to sail well clear before taking a turns penalty.

In other words, if the observance of one rule in certain circumstances 'compels' a boat to break some other rule, does this make the first rule somehow invalid?

There is no rule in the RRS that suggests this in any way.  The closest the rules come to this is rule 43.1(a) referring to a boat being compelled to break a rule by another boat breaking a rule.

I don't think there is any room for reasoning by extension or analogy from  this rule.

Recall that the definition of room was amended in 2013 to expressly include room to comply with Part 2 rules, because it was it was thought that compulsion was not necessarily to be inferred.

Consider also USA Appeal US61

The space to sail well clear is there (well for the sake of argument, let's agree that it is), so evidently it is possible to sail into it.

The fact that a boat will necessarily break a rule or suffer an OCS disadvantage does not excuse her from the requirement to get well clear as soon as possible to comply with rule 44.2.

Quibble 1 Is a 'stand-off buoy' positioned on the pre-start side of the starting line a 'starting mark'?

If the 'stand-off buoy' is not a 'starting mark' then a boat does not break rule 31 by touching it.

Quibble 2 Is there any significant difference between a boat not complying with the definition of start under a P or I flag start and breaking one of rules 30.2, 3, or 4 under a Z, U or Black Flag?

If there was a rule other than rule 43.1(a) about a boat being compelled to break a rule this might be significant, but because there is no such rule it doesn't matter.

Quibble 3 Is it possible for a boat to sail well clear of other boats by sailing out of a pack on the starting line in the last minute before the start?

If the boat was near the pin, she might be able to pull the trigger, then bear away and get off the race course in the 50 seconds or so available to her.  Likewise, if she was near the starting boat, she might be able to go early and tack out of the way.  Otherwise, if she was packed in in the middle of the line, I'd certainly listen very carefully to any evidence that she brought that crossing the line early and manouevering in the face of the fleet was not getting well clear as soon a possible. 

Great post John. 

The only “quibble” I’ll address is the simple one.  

Qib-1 - The stand-off buoy was intentionally attached by a line to the stern of the RC.   The starboard side of the starting line was a orange flag on a pole at the bow of the RC.

All other points are well made .. as always.  

Ang

Thanks Ang.

Do we want to talk about whether a stand off buoy or limit mark that isn't attached to the race committee vessel is a starting mark? 

Sure John. I haven’t seen such language before in an SI that I’ve reviewed. 

Do you have some examples of SI language that does a good/bad job and the consequences, both intended and unintended, of defining an unattached stand-off buoy relative to the start-boat?

I would assume that such SI’s would have some “.. a boat shall not pass between …” language … which would invite some the typical perils of defining the starting line as “poison” during the downwind leg. 

PS .. seem to recall a forum topic about a stand-off buoy in front of the RC to protect the anchor-line .. I’ll see if I can find it. 

Here is one of the previous topics. 
https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/posts/322-start-finish-line-distance-marks