Greetings,
Is there anywhere to find guidance on what level of on-the-water shouting becomes unacceptably bad manners, or unsporting?
The scenario has a competitor on Starboard, who wants to tack on to Port (due to hitting the layline, in his opinion), but is pinned by a boat about a boat length to windward and a little behind who doesn't want to tack. The wind was strong.
Instead of maneuvering in one of the obvious (but annoying) ways to create room to tack, the leeward boat starts yelling "tack!" "we have to tack!" "tack!" in a way that could perhaps(?) be considered rude/intimidating/bullying/obnoxious. He did not shout "room to tack", which may be a different matter.
If Windward was an experienced sailor they would just ignore him, or tell him to shut up. A less experienced sailor might think they have to tack due to an experienced racer yelling at them like this. It reminds me a little of case 47 (hailing Starboard, while on port) though obviously not as serious.
Any pointers to relevant cases, examples, etc, would be much appreciated. Could this rise to being a rule 69 violation?
Cheers,
Doug
It can amount to intimidation if taken the wrong way by the leeward boat.
Sadly, on-the-water intimidation occurs all the time, especially by older experienced sailors who are found in un-favourable situations by rookie or less experienced sailors and may feel hard-done-by. (usually mark rounding or proper course situations, but on more than one occasion I've heard an experienced sailor yell "starboard" while he was on port tack and the inexperienced starboard tack sailor panics and tacks away)
In may of those cases the less experienced sailors acquiesce, most of the time to their detriment.
This includes:
- bullying, discriminatory behaviour and intimidation
- Foul or abusive language that causes or may cause offence.
APPENDIX F: PRINCIPLES OFSPORTSMANSHIP & FAIR PLAY in the WS Misconduct Guidance includes the following as examples of breaches of recognised principles of sportsmanship and fair play :
- bullying, intimidating or harassing others
- verbal abuse, unnecessary shouting or foul language
- deliberately making misleading hails
Appendix A of the WS MIsconduct Guidance states:
Bad language (including that not directed towards an official) has to be judged in this context. If you are uncomfortable with the language being used, then action should be taken. It is quite
proper for clubs and organisers to make clear before an event that the use of inappropriate language will lead to rule 69 action. If the organisers have made this statement, then the protest
committee should be prepared to enforce the standards expected. However, if an event or club has tolerated such language in the past, then a single incident of bad language should not trigger
rule 69 action. This is not to condone such a language, but World Sailing supports the principle that clubs and event must set and improve their own standards.
In this case if the crew of the windward boat felt uncomfortable with the hails and the the language being used they should protest under rule 2 (as this is an on the water incident that directly involves the competition). A race committee, or protest committee member who witnessed the incident could also protest.
The WS Guidance makes an imprtatnt point - organisers (and I would add: race officials) should make clear that innappropriate language, bullying, intimidation etc will not be tolerated. This is especially important in youth and junior events.
The first step is to reach out to your Regional Admin Judge (RAJ) and have a discussion. They can both help guide you on suggested next steps and importantly, if need be, line-up a judge experienced in Rule 69 proceedings to help guide you and your team. Here is a map showing the US Sailing Regions ..
You can find your RAJ here: https://www.ussailing.org/about/our-people/committee-directory/judges-committee/
You could also ask around to your local judge-mentors and ask if there is a local judge who has chaired a Rule 69 hearing and reach out to them for guidance.
From your OP, it appears that the windward boat did not file a Rule 2 protest. If they had, there should have been a hearing and a decision arrived at.
So, now it comes down to how did you learn about this incident?
If a person came to the RC or a member of the PC and made a formal report alleging misconduct, then the PC should meet and discuss how to proceed, as Gordon points out, taking into consideration the standards set by the club, the class or event. A competitor who seeks out a race official and makes a report has demonstrated that they thought it reached a serious level in the reporting person’s mind.
For instance, I’m a member of the Annapolis J/105 fleet. Our fleet has a bit of a reputation of being ….uhhhh … a bit “spirited” at times shall we say. It is not uncommon to have complaints hurled between boats …
“Come’on .. we’re way past the layline!!! You are screwing us both!!”
“Where the he## are you taking us?!?!?”
“What the h#*$ were you thinking!?!? You had no room!!!!”
In our local Fleet, that is par for the course.
That said, i was once called an a%%hole by a competitor when I was the leeward boat limited under 17 and he was windward and wanted to sail deeper than I wanted to. After the race, I approached him and we discussed our wind-angles at that time and I reminded him of what he said and he immediately apologized. It’s never happened again.
So, call your RAJ, but also ask the complainant what they would like to see happen. It might be that all they want is someone to talk to the other boat on their behalf and they didn’t want or intend to start a 69 process.
Henry: Completely agree on the rules stuff. But, I think, if a sailor deliberately yells Starboard, while they were on Port (other than an obvious joke) to make an inexperienced sailor tack away, then that's a foul. See case 47.
Gordon: Yup, these are the words I'm staring at... it was "unnecessary shouting" but there wasn't "bad language". If he'd said "F****** Tack you f****g a*****, then I would have no problem reaching a defensible position. Since people have engaged with the topic, I may flesh out some more details, but the crux of the problem is where's that line? And, I think it's expected that the line is drawn in different places in different circumstances, e.g. adult yelling at junior.
Angelo: Thanks. I'm trying to gather as much context as I can before reaching out for guidance. I see you just added more. I'll comment there.
Eric: I wasn't involved in the incident, and the shouting wouldn't have bothered me. However, it did bother the person who was shouted at... It wasn't profane, as such, but the recipient of the shouting did think it was "over the top". As one of the club "grey-beards" I am trying to help with establishing the lines between "excited competitive chat" versus "being a bit of a dick, in a way that may discourage participation in club races".
In this case if, as a judge I learnt informally about this incident, but no protest or report had been received, then one way to deal with it could be to discuss the incident with the over-vociferous sailor. That person understanding that there are standards of acceptable behaviour, and the consequences of going beyond those standards may be a satisfactory outcome.
A key point is that acceptable standards should be made clear (and those standards may vary - for instance I would be very strict at youth and junior events ,both in regard to the sailors and their support persons). For instannc at student team racing events on the subject of dissent I usually say that a short, forceful expression of disappointment at an umpire's decsion will be tolerated, on condition that the expression does not question either the competence or the parentage of the umpire. Further comment will be met with an instruction to sail on, and if dissent continues a peanlty will be given. This generally raises a laugh and sets the boundaries.
To some degree I think inexperienced competitors pay a bit of a "tax" for their inexperience in racing generally and particularly with rules knowledge. But I'd say that if it's repeated and egregious behavior any boat in the fleet could protest alleging a rule 2 violation. Case 47 establishes the principle that picking on a noob is not fair sailing.
I once had the loser of a protest complain on Facebook about how he'd been "f***ed in the a**" by the PC at [yacht club name]. It got handled with a talking to, but certainly could have been a 69 I think.
I still wonder why Ben Ainslie commented like below after attacking media journalists at the World's in Perth:
"I think it is a massive overreaction to what was obviously an incident," Ainslie said. "I'm very sorry that the jury decided to react the way they did over something which really wasn't as big as it was blown up to be."
I am also strong supporter for having a 1-on-1 talk with someone who rudely swears in a racing situation, but when its is an obvious habit I would file a formal protest the next time he/she does it.
False hailing - the same, have a discussion first, next time 69
Etc
The linkt to the document released by World Sailing is great guidance as mentioned earlier.
https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/WorldSailingMisconductGuidanceJuly2021-[22804].pdf
From US Sailing to its judges:
“The Judges Committee requests that judges report findings of misconduct by boat owners, competitors or support persons that do not rise to the level of mandatory reporting under RRS 69.2(j). The purpose of this reporting is to ensure that protest committees are aware of prior PC decisions in the rare instances of repeated misconduct.
You can find the misconduct information & reporting document on the Judges page.
Probably the move in that situation would be for leeward to come down a little to create enough space to swing, then tack & duck. Or just yell at the other boat and hope you can convince them not to screw both boats...
Leeward can force windward up to HTW but can't compel her to tack.
I was reading this last statement above and thought that someone might interpret it the wrong way (though I understand what you are saying). Maybe it’s just the word “compel”.
A leeward boat can turn up to head to wind. As long as leeward doesn’t pass HTW and gives windward room to keep clear under 16.1 as she changed course into the wind, if windward is coming to a stop and loosing way, she may have no choice but to (feel compelled to) pass HtW to maintain maneuverability and to keep clear, that’s fair game and no foul on leeward.
It’s just that leeward can’t pass HtW before windward does and force windward to pass HtW to keep clear.