Assuming she didn't tack, 18.2.d is clear that the other boat has rights even when luffing up to head to wind. B needs to give enough room for Y to round inside which may include doing that.

Actually, from the diagram I can't really see how B could have got to close to Y even given the types of boat and Y's manoeuvre, but I can see other scenarios in which I get the point of your description. I'd DSQ B.

Hi Russell, to explain how Blue got close to yellow has two reasons with these type of Bargers. Downwind they can build up to 7-10 kts speed. Making a 180 turn requires a lot of rudder (i.e. braking) plus the mainsheet is hauled in on manual labor - 3 people hauling in 60+ meters sheet that runs 3x through the blocks. Thus, a downwind turn is slowing down when the mainsheet is slow. Luffing into to wind slows down even more. That implies that a boat clear astern is closing in rapidly still sailing. 

The "sad part" is that some boats invented that braking on purpose, and unexpected luffing (rudder almost square behind = full brake) can be used a tactical manoeuvre to force a fellow competitor into error ... 
This is practiced particularly when the behind boat stays clear well for a more optimal turn  on speed with normally enough room to round clear behind, gaining/kepping a good position for the upwind course. This is why they hit full brake and luff full head to wind - jamming the mark and dropping more that 50% speed within a few seconds.. 

Lets talk about. Has she had her mark room which is now over. Has she sailed outside any mark room and thus may not be exonerated. 16.1 row changing course. The boat behind may not be in such a bad position. 

Hello Michael,
- Yellow had her mark room and rounded on the inside and was leaving the mark.
- Yellow did not sail outside the zone,
- When Yellow reached upwind course rounding and leaving the mark (proper course?) she suddenly squared her rudder full - luffing head to wind and dropping speed by rudder resistance and luffed sails.

So yes, 16.1 gets into play and hence 15 allowing Blue enough space to stay clear. 

I do not see hw 15 applies she was row All the time.
Once we get to 16.1 then there seems to be a breach, is she exonerated or not?
She can only be exonerated here is 18.2.a still applies, and to  she is within the mark room to which she is entitled.
I think she has had her mark room so no exonerated. In any event by luffing she is outside the mark room she needs so she is dsq.

@Michael I think that at A4 she is not passed the mark - it's adjacent and not behind her.  We don't know why she's shooting up - it could be, given the boat type, that gaining windward gauge will be advantageous on the next beat.  If this was after the mark (i.e. after Y5) then I agree she has previously had the mark room which has now expired and it's more complex.  However, if she cannot immediately manoeuvre without hitting B then it's arguable B still isn't keeping clear.

What if she'd slowed not by luffing but by not pulling the sails in?

Then as you have not changed course there is no 16 so you are fine.
It is the change of course that is the issue.
Team racing calls say 16 applies to leeward of a mark if you luff above a proper course.
There she need not go above close hauled, so the luff is outside the mark room she would be entitled to 

Either way, she is dsq.

Indeed 15 has nothing to do with 16. I mistakenly based rule 15 on rule 11, luffin rights. Probably not applicable since no overlap. 
Yellow was exonerated for 16.1 and Blue got DSQ on rule 18.a, 12 and 14. That was the ruling during the hearing.

Do we know luffing is not her proper course? What if there's an obstruction NE of her and by shooting up she'd then be able to clear it? Admittedly, she's shooting up badly as the rudder is acting as a brake.....

There was no evidence of this in the facts. She was undertaking basically a dangerous movement.
Should from what has come out it be a rule 2?

@ Russel - these bargers can slow down by two means in this type of manoeuvre - a) being slow in hauling the mainsheet in (60+ meters that three persons manually have to pull in. b) placing the rudder square behind the boat in a extreme turn. Blue in this case was allowing Yellow all room, optimizing her own turn with sheeting and less steering. Yellow made her turn, but upon the moment of leaving the mark decided to square her rudder (going back from almost straight to jumping windward) and therefore "hit the brakes" - blocking Blue her turning and trying to force her to go to their leeward side. But that was too late and too unexpected without "a timely notice call". Blue did try to avoid collission still but could  just not keep/steer clear anymore of the rudder of Yellow with het water-stay.... 

Its a pitty she did not appeal. As you can see i think the following boat was wronged.
No 16 exoneration, had mark room or sailing outside it, which leaves exoneration avaliable to the trailing boat. 

We just had a long thread here about Case 30.  Seems to me there are similar applicable elements. 

Forum Moderation Note:

As a reminder, we do not allow information regarding PC decisions to be posted, dissected and 2nd guessed on the forum.  That is clearly stated as against forum rules.

Please keep the focus of the discussion on applying the rules based on the facts we are given here and not what a PC did, did not or should have done .. or share ANY information from a hearing.

Thanks - Ang

If there were no way Blue could have avoided Yellow in a seaman like way because of Yellows sudden action. Then Yellow is a right of way boat that fails to give Blue room to keep clear under 16.1. Then there might be exonerations and so forth, but stil.

First, speaking as someone who sails an extremely heavy and relatively un-manuverable boat like this all the time, I'd like to point out to the group that turning close to the wind at a leeward mark is one of the fastest ways to haul in the sheets and get onto the windward leg. Prior to adding modern winches, this is precisely what we did at every leeward mark and it was most certainly the "proper course" for a boat of this type doing a mark rounding. 

From the RRS Definitions: Proper Course, A course a boat would choose in order to sail the course and finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term.

Second, unlike a modern light weight boat which would quickly decelerate, a heavy boat like this doesn't stop abruptly even when the rudder is turned hard over. The rudder when compared to the mass of the boat has far less effect than a modern boat. As a result, I would be dubious that one can stop one of these multi-ton boats by hauling the tiller hard over.  

For these two reasons, I'd suggest that Yellow could very well be sailing her proper course if that was the fastest way to get the sheets in and start sailing to windward. Blue was clear astern of Yellow, and did not keep clear, breaking Rule 12. 

@Beau - on the subject of hauling in the mainsheet I can state that with these bargers the sheet is close-hauled to >80% at rounding the mark and the remaining 20% withing seconds. 3-4 people work the seperate parts of 6 that run through the blocks. Its is a matter of VMG - approaching the mark wide(r) starting to haul with the wind-direction when steering upwind towards the mark and keeping speed without luffing.
In regards to the rudder - with 1,5 meters width on the foot that is in te water I can assure you that it slows down dramatically with sudden steering over more than 70 degrees angle despite the mass and momentum of the boat. Compared to a boat behind sailing that is relatively like pulling a handbrake.
The only reason why these bargers luff to wind (with less rudder) when rounding a mark is to gain height for clean air when in front of her more boats just rounded. Still this is gliding while maintaning speed, and not angling a hook to block boats behind. In the case I described there was no crowd in front causing bad air, so a jump windward was not to be expected. Het proper course would likely be to take full speed ahead in clean air, versus jumping and braking on leaving the mark (16.1)

But overall - I do agree with you that rule 12 versus 16.1 or 2 remains disputable. That is why I placed this post.

Just review the rules. The fact the boat is sailing a proper course is irrelevant

It is the change of course under 16 and possible or not exoneration that matter. 

It's an interesting case for sure. I think there are a few key points:

I think the diagram shows her not past the mark, but if we're uncertain we return to the last point of certainty, so she's ROW and blue must keep clear at that point.  I can also think of  racing scenarios where you luff towards head to wind whilst approaching the mark to ensure you're to windward of the following boat, though the violence of the manoeuvre is less.  Which means I still think blue is dsq but it wouldn't take much in the change of circumstances to dsq yellow instead.

Since I think the original point of the question was to see if there's anything that could be done to 'clean up' what appears to some to be a rogue tactic in a fleet, I think having a fleet discussion about the issue and pointing out that the timing would be critical in winning a protest and it would be possible for yellow to be DSQ'd (and we know that going into any protest room becomes a game of odds),  that if damage occurs then yellow will be DSQ'd as well, and so undertaking such a sudden braking turn is not advisable.  All Yellow needs to do to ensure blue goes below her is to not speed up quite so fast and this would benefit her speed-wise overall as well, instead of putting the brakes on.

Personally, I think getting the PC (or large virtual PC as you have here) to engage with the sailors in discussions about these issues outside the protest room is good for the sport and its development, so I'd tend to use the debate here to show yellow might come out of similar situations less well than blue in a fleet meeting or similar.

No Proper Course, Mark-room given, PC and the mark are only distractions IMO.

FWIW, this is how I see this scenario ...

OK .. so the mark doesn't matter .. and proper course doesn't matter.  Let's look at this scenario with those 2 items removed and see what's what .. let's put them maneuvering before the start (no proper course, no mark-room).

The drawing below preserves the boat-boat separation (3/4-1 BL) before the turn.

Who is going to penalize Yellow?

Angelo & Mike - Great points all around and a terrific idea to distill the rules with this example.  I also think that the claim that Y was intentionally slowing by pushing the tiller to leeward is irrelevant. It's key to this that B was altering course towards Y at all times starting from about 3.5 in your drawing. ( It helps to start thinking like an Umpire at a match race. )

1) B was leeward boat altering to windward.
2) Y did not pass head to wind. (per the original post despite the diagram)
3) Y wasn't given room to keep clear of B.

Penalize B - Rule 16.1 (When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear.)

@Angelo and @ Beau 
1- I wonder if you can take proper course out of the eqaution by presenting a startline. The target for the course is the next upwind mark! And not "no man's" land. 
2- The key where its starts is a mark rounding and the momen of leaving the mark where 18.a stops (giving mark room).
3- Even without the mark - Y is heading up (the picture of Angelo puts the nose of B leeward, where she was windward and not in contact yet) - Y is gradually turning up, sees Blue getting to her inside closing and then decides to give it a dramatic extra push, blocking B and not allowing her room (time) to stay clear. To me 16.1 comes into play. The sudden extra push of Yellow can be interpreted as a "change of course", diverting suddenly from a gradual turn. It is clearly ment to block B and intentionally force her into error (Rule 2).

Do compare the pictures - Angelo's picture places Blue leeward, where she actually is windward with her bow and stil clear. In Angelo's picture it is a clear rule 12 to me - Blue in error and DSQ.

@Gijs, I'm happy to take my earlier post and run it with B being clear astern of Y. In the original diagram, I can't see any time when the boats were overlapped before contact. In the original post:
- At position 2, no overlap
- At position 3, no overlap
- At position 4, contact between the bowsprit of B and the stern of Y (according to the original diagram)
- Both boats are altering course
- B fails to keep clear as the overtaking boat braking Rule 12 (When boats are on the same tack and not overlapped, a boat clear astern shall keep clear of a boat clear ahead.)
- DSQ Blue

Are you implying that B has mark room in the original post? I can't find any restriction on the maneuvers of Y either turning or slowing down. One would need to argue that Y broke 14 and caused the contact, and in the original post I don't think B would prevail. (In team and match racing maneuvers like this are quite common and are called "mark traps" here in California)

I think the first question that has to be answered is whether 18 still applies at the time of contact.

If 18 still applies then Yellow is exonerated if she breaks 16 as long as she is in the mark room she is entitled to.  Blue breaks 12, 14, & 18.2(b).  Whether Yellow breaks 16 is moot because she is exonerated for that.

Intentionally slowing down and creating the contact would mean that it was likely reasonably possible to avoid contact, so Yellow would break 14, might be exonerated under 43.1(c), but quite possibly breaks 2 in the process.

If Yellow is sailing outside of the mark room she is entitled to, then it's the same rules as if 18 no longer applies as follows.

If 18 no longer applies because we have decided that mark room has been given then there are more possible outcomes.  It is now a question of whether Yellow was changing course at the same time of contact.

If Yellow does not change course while slowing down then she is not obligated by 16 to give room to Blue to keep clear.  Blue breaks 12 & 14.  The same thoughts on 14 for Yellow apply.

If Yellow is changing course then the question of whether Blue was already not keeping clear comes into play.  See Match Race Rapid Response Call 2021.001 Question 3.

If Blue was keeping clear then Yellow breaks 14 & 16.  Blue breaks 12 but is exonerated.  It's hard to see how Blue could have reasonable avoided contact.

If Blue was not keeping clear then Blue breaks 12 & 14.  This is where the case that Blue was going to hit Yellow even without Yellow changing course fits in.  The first thoughts above on 14 for Yellow apply.

Gijs re: "I wonder if you can take proper course out of the equation"

The point I'm trying to make to you is NOT that I'm "taking proper course out of the equation" .. but rather .. "proper course has no place in your original post or my drawing" (thus they are the same). In other words, you are incorrectly inserting "proper course" into the discussion and into the analysis of the scenario when contact occurred.

 It is my opinion that misapplication and misuse of "proper course" is the most common mistake made when people talk about the rules.

"Proper Course" has no impact or meaning between 2 boats unless there is a rule that uses the term which applies between them.

The likely rules that might apply in your OP are: 

Therefore, in your scenario, "proper course" has no place in the discussion (since Blue gave Yellow room to sail to the mark).  

There is no inherent "right to sail your proper course" nor is there an inherent "obligation to sail your proper course".

Always better to avoid the term "overtaking Boat"

John C, i like how you laid it out above. One thing I see when looking at the OP drawing (and I replicated in mine) is that Blue is constantly turning toward  Yellow until contact occurs.

We are talking about 20m/20ton boats, right?

I can’t think of any Case or Call that says a boat clear ahead must keep her speed up if a boat clear astern is following so closely that she can not avoid contact if she slows. 

I think there might be a combined application of MR RR 2021.001 and Case 30 that ends up saying that Blue wasn’t keeping clear when she turned toward Yellow as the space between them decreased (somewhere between positions  3.66-3.9, before the contact)

I’m focusing on 3-4.  From 3 to 4 BOTH Blue and Yellow are constantly altering course to port. Port alters course 100 deg in the direction of Yellow all the while her 20m gap for her 20ton boat decreased to nothing, she just kept turning toward  Yellow’s stern until she was so close that she could not keep clear.  From 3-4 Yellow alters course 90 deg

The 1BL spearation disappears someplace between 3-4. @3-2/3, Blue is likely approx where Yellow-3 is.  So in 1BL, Blue alters course another 30-40 degs toward Yellow (in 1BL of forward travel) as she continues to gain on Yellow.

Blue is not entitled to MR.  Blue has no entitlement to room to come up to her close-hauled course at 4 or to sail close to the mark.

Ang -

I tried to cover all the rule routes that you might go through in looking at the case.  I didn't really try to pull out of the OP where I might land if I were on the PC.

No, there is no rule that says a boat has to maintain her speed.  42.1 says "increase, maintain or decrease her speed".  Speeding up and slowing down are natural things that happen.  A boat is allowed to slow down by easing her sails, making rudder movements (specifically allowed as an exception in 42.3(f)), etc.  However, I think that if a boat deliberately decreases her speed to cause contact that this is possibly a violation of rule 2.  See Team Race Call A4.  Think about a boat clear astern (A) that is luffing up to take the stern of a boat clear ahead (B) and, as the bow of A is passing the stern of B, B deliberately slams on the "brakes" so that contact occurs but does not change course (no 16).  A would have kept clear had B not done that. I am tempted to think rule 2 in this situation even though B broke no other rule.

The case where the boat clear astern is so close that a decrease in speed, for whatever reason, causes immediate or nearly immediate contact would seem to indicate that the boat astern was not keeping clear, i.e. the clear ahead boat cannot continue to sail her course (which includes speeding up and slowing down, but not changing course) without needing to take avoiding action.  The subtle point is that if the boat clear ahead changes course while the boat clear astern is already in that position then the boat ahead can't break 16 based on Match Race Rapid Response Call 2021.001 Question 3.  I think Match Racing Call B6 also supplies some insight into that.

As the keep clear boat there is no limitation on Blue changing course or anything else as long as she keeps clear of and gives room to the boats she has to.  So the fact that she is turning doesn't really change things, the only question is 'is she keeping clear at this point?' and 'when is she no longer keeping clear?'.  That Yellow, the R.O.W boat, is turning is important as she does have limitations on her because that.

I agree, I think that Blue is keep clear of Yellow and at no point entitled to MR from Yellow throughout this incident.

Ang - for some reason I am not seeing your comments on the website, but got them in email.
           JC re: “However, I think that if a boat deliberately decreases her speed to cause contact that this is possibly a violation of rule 2.”
           That’s a bit of a rub for me.  I guess if you have the skipper admit that was their intent in slowing … sure .. but the skipper says he wanted to slow so that be boat behind would have to sail wider around the mark which would put him to leeward.  

I guess if the skipper of Yellow is looking back at Blue and realizes that there is no way for Blue to bear off and go to leeward (possibly because she is turning up) and still slows knowing Blue has no option but to hit Yellow, I'd be inclined to be pretty hard on Yellow.  I think you could establish that by the questions you ask Yellow.  If Yellow says they wanted Blue to go to leeward and then you ask about the distances between the boats and direction that Blue was turning and whether they thought Blue could actually have done something different that hitting her, you can probably get Yellow to admit it without actually saying it.

John … yea … I actually didn’t intend to post that comment … I was putting down some thoughts (incomplete) and I hit submit by accident .. so I deleted the post. :-).

But the cat’s out of the bag. lol.

But part of your reply is sorta my what’s bothering me … you put on Yellow the direction Blue was turning in Yellow’s 16.1 maneuvering limitation, not just where Blue was heading the moment she turned.

Yes … Yellow is obligated under 16.1 to continue to give Blue room to keep clear as she turned.  But Blue has an obligation to use room avail/given to keep clear.   

I’d really need to dig really deep into those last seconds when Yellow started to turn above close-hauled.  

At that moment, 

Ang,

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. :-)

All excellent questions and things you would want to delve into during a hearing.  I think Team Race Call A4 helps us with the notion of how the rules might apply if Yellow intentionally slowed to get Blue to hit her.  And while that is a possible rules path, it might be an uphill climb, but I think it is a valid path, even if it is not the most probable.

I'm not advocating any particular result, just what the possibilities are.  This is what I might consider before a hearing as I am thinking about what rules apply and what questions I am looking for answers to.

The fact that Blue is turning a given direction is important as she has angular momentum in that direction and may need some additional room to stop the turn before turning away to respond to Yellow's change of course.  That has to be a component of the room Yellow is required to give Blue when she changes course, no matter how small.

One thing is that while the rules can be applied on a frame by frame basis, the reality is that we have to account for the actual movement of the boats in real time.

John agree we aren’t disagreeing … just hashing it out. 

BTW … we don’t have to worry about angular momentum on these 20ton 20m barges … they can apparently spin on a dime baby! :-)

@Angelo & @ John - First let me express my thanks to all for all the insights ! Sharing your knowledge!

they can not really spin on a dime .... my drawing may have been wider, but there is little room in boats.exe ... When you "spin" them it takes full rudder, which leads to fierce slowdom upwind, loosing drag in your luffing sails. Meanwhile on an upwind turn three crew have to haul in 60 meters of sheet. 
Turning towards downwind at an upwind mark with full rudder leaves pressure in the sails, maintains more speed but still the turnradius will be >30m. It takes a lot of force .... so imagine the slow down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YbaRfuDWNA&ab_channel=SkydroneSloten  (@1:14 you get a great example of a crowd rounding a downwind mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB40xsDF8Pg&ab_channel=SkydroneSloten 

I never think deliberate slowing is rule 2. It breaks no rule. There is a match racing call on before the start letting the sail out to stop. The trailing boat has to keep clear. Now this may be expected in match racing, I would perhaps have to review if it was seamanlike and OK for fleet racing. We do need to be carefull with rule 2.

While I agree that slowing down breaks no rule*, I think that slowing down deliberately solely for the purpose of causing contact may break rule 2 and a PC should consider it.  I know if I were the boat behind, I might be inclined to believe that.

* Although I wonder about dragging hands and feet or throwing out a sea anchor.  But this is a different topic and we should stay on point.