Forum: Race Officers

Multi Fleet Mixup and Scoring

Greg Dargavel
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • National Judge
An event has 3 fleets and a start for each fleet. The starts are being rolled by the RC with a minute between sequences. A boat assigned to the third fleet, and thereby the third start, errs and starts with the second fleet. By the time her proper assigned start occurs she is well up the course. The RC did not note the boat's error until compiling results. 

Clearly the boat is OCS. However, at the time of the 3rd start the RC had no effective way to signal an individual recall to a boat now 6 minutes up the course and have that boat note the signal/sound (even if the RC did note the boat had started with the preceding fleet). 

The boat was scored DNS because the RC did not signal a recall but the boat Did Not Start with its assigned fleet.

Was this a proper score? If not, how should the RC have acted and scored the boat.

Created: 24-Jun-01 21:35

Comments

P
Peter van Muyden
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
2
Normally I score the boat DNS if the boat was near the starting area during her sequence but didn't cross the start line.  In this case I would have scored the boat DNC, but either DNS or DNS is appropriate in my view.   Signaling an OCS could have messed up the boats of the third start. 

It is the same reason that I don't signal an OCS if a boat 100 meters on the course side of the starting line and is sailing towards the line.


Created: 24-Jun-01 22:08
P
John D. Farris
Certifications:
  • Measurer in Training
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Judge
  • Club Race Officer
0
One-Design or Handicap? What were the class flags? 
Created: 24-Jun-01 22:12
P
John Culter
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
2
                      OCS is incorrect. See definition of starting. Peter has it right. The boat didn't start.
Created: 24-Jun-01 23:47
Matthew Blake
0
If A5.3 is in effect (for a long series), I would rather see that boat get scored DNS vs DNC.  At least allow it a small credit for coming to the race area.  For DNC, it gets the same score as all those entries sitting idle in the parking lot.
Created: 24-Jun-02 00:05
P
John D. Farris
Certifications:
  • Measurer in Training
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Judge
  • Club Race Officer
0
One-Design or Handicap? 
Created: 24-Jun-02 00:07
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • International Umpire
  • International Judge
1
I would tend to score a boat that comes to the starting area and starts in an earlier start DNS. The boat will have a finish, so DNS seems to make more sense. If there is an incident between them and another boat the part 2 rules apply.
Created: 24-Jun-02 00:30
Greg Dargavel
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • National Judge
1
John. The skipper making the error was not so unaware that the mistake was made in a one design fleet. It was handicap.
Created: 24-Jun-02 12:52
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
1
I don't think you can score the boat DNC.

By the race committee's records, she came to the starting area, otherwise the question could never have been asked.  The purpose of DNC, to encourage boats to participate in races has been fulfilled.  She deserves her points for being there.

I don't think there's justification for:
  • defining 'starting area' as only the area on the pre start side of the starting line, and
  • defining 'to the starting area' as meaning 'within' the starting area, narrowly defined.

There's no doubt that the boat did not start in accordance with  Definition Start.  No part of her hull crossed the starting line from the pre start side after her starting signal.

I don't see why OCS is incorrect.   RRS A10 defines OCS as 'Did not start; on the course side of the starting line at her starting signal and failed to start, or broke rule 30.1'  The boat has complied with all these conditions.

There is a small problem with consistency.  Scoring a boat OCS relies on the race committee observing the boat on the course side of the starting line.  A boat, that ininially came to the starting area that has sailed some way down the first leg at her starting signal may be scored OCS if the race committee observes her there, otherwise she will scored DNS.

I think it would be nice if we had a rule or case or RMM guidance saying that a boat that does not start and does not sail in the area on the pre-start side of the starting line in the period between her Warning or Preparatory Signal and her Starting Signal should be scored DNS, not OCS.  That would achieve consistency.  But we don't have that guidance.


At her starting signal the boat's hull was on the course side of the starting line.   RRS 29.1 required the race committee to promptly display flag X with one sound.  Not doing so was an improper omission by the race committee.  There's nothing in  RRS 29.1 about whether the recall signal will be effective or not (but that issue may have an effect on redress).
 
Case 79 addresses a similar situation, but where:
  • the boat was only slightly over the line at the starting signal (See Answer 3), and
  • the boat has no reason to know that part of her hull crossed the starting line early.

Those conditions do not apply in this scenario.

So the improper omission of the race committee in not signaling a recall may be part of grounds for redress under  RRS 62.1(a).   The other conditions for redress to be given are:
  • That the improper omission made the boat's score worse,
  • That the worsening of the boat's score was significant, and 
  • That the worsening of the boats score was through no fault of her own.

The OP scenario is that the OCS boat is so far down the first leg that she is unlikely to see or hear a recall signal made after her proper starting signal. If the race committee had promptly signaled individual recall after the starting signal this would have not had any effect on the boat's behaviour.  Thus the failure to signal individual recall did not make the boat's score any worse.

The boat is also at fault by crossing the starting line and not returning and starting correctly.

Although there is an improper omission by the race committee, because the other conditions of  RRS 62.1 are not met the boat is not entitled to redress.
Created: 24-Jun-03 23:25
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