The RC displayed Flag X with one sound signal immediately after the start of a race as there was a boat on the Course Side of the Extension of the Starting Line. There were no boat OCS in the triangle. The leading boat in the fleet returned, restarted and finished last in the race. The boat that started second won the race.
After the race the boat that returned was told they were not OCS and has applied for redress claiming the RC's action of signalling a recall was improper.
I can find no relevant cases or best practice in the WS Race Management Manual.
What do we think?
The RC did see a boat over SL and extensions, but just not in the triangle (so she was over an extension) .. and a boat other than the boat they saw started correctly but returned?
What starting flag was being flown?
In the absence of an "i" flag, i do believe the signalling of ocs for being over an extension is not necessary.
The question as to whether this is an act or ommission is unclear.
Under 29.1 it is not required, but not prohibited.
I am confused by ws as they in recent manuals have changed the guidance with no policy statement. Originally it had to be required and missed or not required and done.
All this is removed from the current judges manual.
This causes me to think ws want more successful redress claims but they are not saying so, and leaving judges in the dark.
To answer, yes i do think this was an impropper action.
Do i think the boat should get redress considered.
It is generally up to a boat to know if it is over or not. I would therefore be looking at "no fault" very carefully.
Sad, and bad race management, but it may be nothing by way of redress is appropriate.
In fact here the conclusion of the old judges manual.
So no redress as the requirements for rrs 62 not met.
Mike b
The rule only refers to the course side, not the extensions. It says nothing about crossing the line. Note that a boat can cross the line and shortly after being over "the extention". Hard to tell in detail what happens at the pin from the starting vessel. We had the same situation in teamrace, boats A and B were over at the pin not having crossed the line. Boats C and D that started correct returned on X and applied for redress. Not granted. I wouldn´t say it´s an improper action even if it surely can be confusing for sailors. Tricky: Not mentioning extensions in the rule might exclude X flag for boats obviously not i the vicinity of the line. Flag X is always just a service to sailors so most important is to be as sure as possible on your own start. This should involve a discussion about "your own fault" as well.
Anders
The RC should not anticipate that the boat they identified as being over an extension was not going to start between the start marks, given the likelihood of the second sound signal and the X-Ray causing ‘unintended consequences’.
I agree that a boat is responsible for knowing if it is over the line or not, but if it is very close, and sometimes it is ‘one heartbeat’ close, a prudent RO would not have created this situation. Competitors are entitled to rely on our judgement as much as their own. Redress likely to succeed.
The Preparatory Flag was Flag P, the RC saw the boat on the course side of an extension of the start line past the ODM at the starting signal. I am not sure at the moment if the boat on the course side returned and started correctly as I haven't yet heard the redress claim.
Personally I would not have signalled an individual recall, but was it improper?
As others have said, it is a boat's responsibility to start correctly. The boat was not sure so returned. How does that meet the criteria of "no fault of her own?"
The earlier interpretation of 'improper' was based on a classic case of 'dictionary cherry picking'... In English 'improper' has 3 meanings:
- dishonest and against the rule or law
- unsuitable or not correct for a particular use of occasion
- related to sex in a way that is rude or socially unacceptable;
The old manual only applied the first definition.
I would suggest that an improper action by an RC under the third definition would be the subject of a report tho the MNA! However the other two definitions are pertinent to RC actions if the word 'improper' is used in the sense ordinarily understood in nautical and general use. The new manual corrects the previous error.
For instance there is no rule that states that an anchor line of a mark or committee vessel cannot be lying just under the surface for several metres to windward , invisible to boats passing the mark, but not deep enough for their keels or centreboards to clear. However, this is definitely unsuitable or not correct in that situation.
However I agree with Mike that the lead boat is not entitled to redress.
My personal opinion is that if there is a boat on the course side of an extension that is clearly sailing back to start then the RC could avoid considerable confusion by not displaying X. Is this a rare case of a 'proper omission' in that not displaying X is appropriate to the particular occasion? Should the OCS boat claim redress the 'no fault of her own' condition is not met.
RRS 29 says ‘on the course side of the starting line’. As there was no boat on the course side of the starting line I think it is proven that there is an error by the RC. The only part to be decided is ‘score made worse through no fault of her own’. I look forward to reading the outcome of the redress hearing.
How do you define 'on the course side of the starting line'? You seem to be saying that a boat that is on the course side of an extension of the starting line is not on the course side of the starting line. If this is the case what is the limit of OCS? A line perpendicular to the start line, the lay lines when sailing away from the start line or some other line?
Gordon
I would argue that this is a rare case of a 'proper' omission.
Quoting the rule as written and taking the starting line as defined by the starting marks. A boat that sails around the course from outside the starting marks without having crossed the starting line is NSC. And maybe in breach of Rule 2!
I believe that no one is contesting that a boat that does not start is NSC. What I do not fully understand is when do you signal that a boat is OCS.
Do you only signal OCS when a boat has crossed the line before the starting signal?
Do you signal OCS when for instance a boat is to windward of the start vessel at the starting signal and then passes ahead of CV and dips the line?
I'd note that the MR rule 29.1 adds "or one of its extensions" .. so there is evidence for intention of its absence.
So a boat that crosses the line at the pin end before the start and at the starting signal is beyond the perpendicular to the start line is not OCS?
I race management question is when a boat is proceeding towards the start line (usually down wind) but is in the perpendicular between the marks defining the start line should you signal an ocs. They may be say two minutes upwind at the start. Generally the answar is no, the boat is required to start correctly, and the signal may be missintrepreted by a correctly starting boat he was ocs.
To signal however not an act or ommission as it follows the rule.
She is ocs under appendix a as she did not start, which is separate from. Being on the course side of the starting line.
This would help clarify if the boat that was deemed OCS and was the cause to display X was properly identified.
In any case, I would say that redress is not given in this case as it is a boats own responsibility to return and restart if she thought she was over the line.
I am not sure that the answer depends on which preparatory signal has been displayed. X flag will never displayed if U or Black flag has been displayed. Under P, I and Z flag, X would be displayed of a boat is OCS at the starting signal.
I admire, but do not share, your confidence that the inclusion of ' or one of its extensions' in MR 29.1 is evidence of intention that its omission in RRS 29.1 is deliberate.
In the example illustrated here, under P flag, the starting signal is given at position 1. Is Yellow, outside the perpendicular to the end of the start line at the starting signal, OCS?
It's the first time I've made the Match Race argument though ... so think of it as me taking it out for a stroll.
I'd make the case that the presence of the phrase in Fleet's 30.1 and in MR's 29.1 and its absence in 29.1 is pretty strong evidence that when starting line is used, it's refers to the "line segment"
Personally, I suspect that there is not a definitive answer and that race officers use their judgement as to when to display X.
In your diagram the yellow boat at position 1 is clearly sailing towards the starting line to start. To avoid confusing other competitors I would not make a second sound signal nor display X for exactly the reasons that have been demonstrated in the example we are discussing. If yellow suddenly turned hard to starboard and sailed up the course without completing his course to behind the starting line and starting I would simply score him NSC. And: No, he is not on the course side of the line as the line is described in the rule. That much is obvious from your diagram.
OCS or not OCS?
X flag or no X flag?
This does a couple things. It erases this confusion, it negates the confusing actions of the RC, and it keeps things standard. That’s how I would approach it in the hearing. And then I’d consider submitting a rules amendment to make it easily understood.
As for redress, if it states that a boat is ultimately responsible for knowing if she is over early then sadly this ends the discussion. No redress. If this is not clear then I think it should be considered. But then you have to decide; do you assume that boat would win the race? That doesn’t seem reasonable. So then do you look at that boat’s history and assess where they reasonably could expect to finish given a lead at the start? That could be a fur ball as well. Again, not a judge. Just throwing my thoughts out there.
I find myself wondering about the practical implications. Gordon's boat, assuming it doesn't return, clearly hasn't started so must either be scored DNS or OCS. I don't think I can imagine that a boat that far over the line would be in a position to say they couldn't know they hadn't started, and be entitled to redress, although I suppose very long lines as per Cowes week... I don't, however, consider that an RC could reliably judge between say position 1.5, with the corner of the boat in the triangle, and position 2, and yet that judgement is crucial to distinguish between OCS and DNS. Which makes me wonder, in what circumstances would that distinction matter?
However, finding that a race committee signaling an individual recall was an improper action would be difficult. In my opinion it is not the best action but is not an improper action or omission.
If I flag had been displayed, it would be an improper action not to signal an individual recall, which gives me one more reason to not like I flag starts!
Now put boats outside the extension back in….maybe ‘Committee Boat lapper’ who was early sheeted in and went round the end (and is never signalled OCS - so why should ‘Port end spinner’ be different?).
None of those boats are OCS….
So why apply things differently from the no boat situation?
This matter was evidently a live issue back in 1992, and the indications are that the line between the starting marks is the starting line, and the extensions are not.
In the 1989-1992 version of the rules, rule 8.1 Individual Recall said
Unless otherwise prescribed in the sailing instructions, when, at her starting signal, any part of a yacht's hull, crew or equipment is on the course side of the starting line or its extensions ... the race committee shall promptly display Code flag "X"
In the 1993-1996 version, this was ameneded to read
Unless otherwise prescribed in the sailing instructions, when at her starting signal any part of a yacht's hull, crew or equipment is on the course side of the starting line ... the race committee shall promptly display Code flag "X"
Dave Perry, in Understanding the Yacht Racing Rules through 1996 explained the change as follows
Rule 7.1 Individual Recall: The rule no longer requires the race committee to display Code flag "X" when a yacht is on the course side of the extensions of starting line. In most cases, a yacht on the course side of the extension at the gun is well aware that they have not started correctly yet, and an "X" flag is unnecessary and potentially misleading to yachts that were otherwise close behind the line at the start.
Nick Hutton's reference to 'RRS 29 says ‘on the course side of the starting line’ where RRS 30.1 says ‘the line or its extensions’ adds force to the argument that the line between the starting marks is the starting line, and the extensions are not'
A and B are clearly on the Right side of the line, one might add directly so. C is clearly on neither side. But F?
Divorcing myself from the race course I think I would have to say that whilst F is not directly on the Right, it is on the right side. I really don't think I could say its on neither side.
If the right side of the line is the pre-start side of the line then F is to the pre-start side of the line and beyond the starboard end of the line.
In the same way, you would understand if I wrote 'C and D are on or near the starboard end extension of the starting line.'
I am reminded of how we describe the relative position of boats. For instance if I wrote ' A was clear astern and to windward of B' most of you would understand what I meant, and would understand that this is different to 'A was overlapped to windward of B', or 'A was clear ahead and to windward of B'.
2 Robin said ' if the harbour from which yachts are sailing to access the race area is upwind of the starting line and the boats are late to the area, they are OCS? Obviously not.'
Which establishes a point - in order to be OCS at the starting signal you must first not be DNC - a boat can only be OCS if they come to the starting area.
Following on:
- a boat that is OCS at the starting signal can still come back to start. If she does not then she is scored OCS
- a boat that came to the starting area, was not OCS at the starting signal and did not cross the starting line from the pre-start sid of the line before the starting line was closed is scored DNS.
This suggests to me that we should agree on situations in which a boat is to be recorded as OCS, and X displayed. For instance, at the starting signal;
- a boat is on the line with part of the hull on the course side
- a few seconds before the starting signal a boat crosses the starting line from the pre-start side and is now entirely on the course side.
- a boat passed ahead of the start vessel before the starting signal and sails parallel to the starting line a few metres on the course on the course side until the starting signal.
Does anyone have an issue with displaying X in these situations?
Of course the devil is in the detail here, which is why rule writing is so difficult. Its not hard to imagine all sorts of edge cases.
I remain uncomfortable with the concept of what one could call an OCS box, which is undefined in the rules and exhibits a concept, not to my knowledge found elsewhere in the rules, of a an area bounded by invisible lines perpendicular to the line. Not only is it possible to imagine edge cases where a boat can make a normal attempted start and not be called OCS, but also its going to be next to impossible for an RC to judge whether or not a boat is inside or outside the box at the pin end and thus whether its OCS or DNS.