Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

US Prescriptions: Appendix V

Richard Reitmeyer
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Club Judge
In the US, we've had the "Alternate Penalties" of the US-specific Appendix V or a predecessor since 2013. But I'm not seeing appendix V in the 2025-2028 US Sailing Prescriptions.

Anyone have backstory on what drove the decision to omit, or if that was an accident and they'll be back in a revision?

 ====

Background for those not in the US:

In the 2021-2024 quad, US Sailing's prescriptions give race-document writers an easy option to to specify
V1: a one-turn penalty for breaking a rule of part 2 or rule 31 while racing, if the boat may have broken one of those rules outside of the zone.
V2: a post-race scoring penalty of 30%

In the 2017-2021 quad
* same

In the 2013-2016 quad
* Appendix T1 had a one-turn penalty identical to the current V1
* Appendix T2 had a 20% scoring penalty after the race before the protest time limit, and 30% afterward

In the 2009-2012 quad
* No alternate penalties in a prescription.

Created: 24-Oct-29 15:17

Comments

P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Richard .. nice catch.  I know some on the USSRC read RRoS sometimes and even occasionally post here.  Maybe we can get some background on the decision.

I agree .. Appx V is VERY often used.  I'd even say that's true in the majority of race-docs that I review or sail under.
Created: 24-Oct-29 15:20
Clark Chapin
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
0
Agree. Appendix V is often used these days. While preparing to judge an event where some classes wanted Appendix T (Arbitration) and others preferred Appendix V, I created the attached form.
Clark Chapin
Appendix T1 or V2 Alternate Penalty Form Blank.pdf 214 KB
Created: 24-Oct-29 15:42
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • International Umpire
  • International Judge
1
Appendix V now appears in the US Prescriptions on the US Sailing website. US-Sailing-Prescriptions-for-2025-2028-10.29.2024.pdf

Note the new preamble to V2.
When rule V2 applies it does not replace any penalty that may be taken under rule 44.1. The availability of the penalty provided in rule V2 does not eliminate the need for a boat to promptly take an appropriate penalty or action in accordance with the Basic Principle, Sportsmanship and the Rules.

Created: 24-Oct-29 16:41
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
Have you seen any US Sailing prescriptions yet? The intel I have from an email (and posted here) is that they will publish final documents in December. I assume V1 will be a part of that, as will changes to U flag and black flag which accommodate the new obstruction rule. See my second comment and also the below:

The confusion and delay in posting the rules to me is a HUGE issue and a big error on the part of World & US Sailing. Our frostbiting group has already decided to continue to use the old rules for the rest of the winter season because we know rule changes won't be finalized, and rule books won't be out until way too late to make sure everyone is up to date.
Created: 24-Oct-29 16:44
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
Jim Capron
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
I believe this to be a website issue. The 2025-2028 prescriptions that were approved by the US Sailing Board includes Appendix V. The appendix is changed slightly for the next rule book but the principle of the post-race penalty remains the same.
Created: 24-Oct-29 16:48
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
well i retract the first half of my statement and emphasize the second. These kinds of mistakes are unacceptable for those of us who sail year-round. We cannot follow rules that are either not published, or published haphazardly.
Created: 24-Oct-29 16:52
Frederick Hagedorn
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0
The Rulebook is delayed, not the prescriptions. They are posted by us sailing at https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/US-Sailing-Prescriptions-for-2025-2028-10.29.2024.pdf

Appendix V is still there. 

These are not impacted by the issues at World Sailing.
Created: 24-Oct-29 16:52
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • International Umpire
  • International Judge
0
The US Sailing prescriptions are published on the US Sailing website. The Racing Rules of Sailing 2025-2028 - US Sailing

See the note regarding the delay in the new rules.

World Sailing published the new rulebook on its website in July. A few errors and rule conflicts have come to light since then, and World Sailing will address those conflicts at its Annual Conference November 4-9 in Singapore. Any changes deemed urgent will be approved as part of the racing rules that take effect in January.



Created: 24-Oct-29 16:58
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Mark ..  you and I had a long discussion about what the new preamble seems to try to address.

V2 (a) states: "a boat that may have broken one or more rules of Part 2 or rule 31 in an incident may take a Post-Race Penalty at any time after the race until the beginning of a protest hearing involving the incident."

Is it still your position (maybe fortified by the new preamble) that:
  1.  a boat that is not protested, but realizes later after racing that they may have broken one or more rules of Part 2 or rule 31, that they can not take a V2 penalty?  
  2. But if that same boat in the exact same circumstance happens to have been protested, likewise doesn't think at the time that they broke one of those rules, but later changes their mind .. that they may take the V2 penalty?

If the answer to the above is "yes", what if the protestor protests on the water .. the protestee boat accepts a V2 penalty before the PTL, but the protesting boat never files the paperwork?

Like I've mentioned before .. at least in my experience .. this upends how V2 has been applied.
Created: 24-Oct-29 17:05
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • International Umpire
  • International Judge
0
Nick, I am not sure I am understanding your issue.

The Racing Rules of Sailing for 2025-2028 are published and available on the World Sailing website. RRS-2025-2028-Final.pdf

The US Sailing prescriptions to The Racing Rules of Sailing for 2025-2028 are published and available on the US Sailing website. US-Sailing-Prescriptions-for-2025-2028-10.29.2024.pdf

The issue with the World Sailing RRS will be resolved in Singapore next week.

The following is my understanding of the World Sailing RRS issue. When World Sailing changed the definition of obstruction, they inadvertently made a starting line an obstruction when rule 30.2, rule 30.3 or rule 30.4 is in effect. Next week they will approve a change to the wording so that the starting line is not an obstruction.

Obstruction (d) is an area or line in a rule that boats are prohibited from entering or crossing. The wording of rules 30.2/3/4 is:  
If flag Z / flag U / Black flag has been displayed, no part of a boat’s hull shall be in the triangle formed by the ends of the starting line and the first mark
during the last minute before her starting signal.
Created: 24-Oct-29 18:09
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
My issue is with the timing of final rule-book publication (in print or PDF) with relevant prescriptions and necessary changes:
  1. In July, the "final" draft of the new rules were posted online, and almost immediately, the obstruction issue was brought up. Because of the nature of the publication (a single online source, not including US Sailing) plus this obvious and glaring issue, it's been difficult to treat those rules as final. There has been no publication of what changed from last quad to this one. It's now 4 months later, and it has yet to be addressed. Assuming it is fixed in November, they expect sailors to read, assess, learn, socialize, and adopt new rules in less than half that time.
  2. US Sailing has posted a draft version of their appendices, but as this thread, especially Ang's post above point out, it is linked wrong, and is confusing experienced judges.
  3. The actual publication on the US Sailing app will not come until December. The printed booklet will be available after my first 2025 race is finished!!! (Both dates per this post.)
  4. It takes weeks or months to create and schedule a seminar on new information. We are planning one for March. at Community Boating.

It's fine to have errors, but address them quickly! Get information about changes into peoples' hands. Give me an official final copy of the full US Sailing rule book to point people to when they ask. There is no reason to have delayed addressing the minor issues that were found, it's only going to make racing in the new year more difficult!

TLDR, the roll-out has been botched. Finding the rule-book should take less digging.
Created: 24-Oct-29 18:40
Jim Capron
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
Niko, regarding your "There has been no publication of what changed from last quad to this one", you might find this document useful: 
https://d7qh6ksdplczd.cloudfront.net/sailing/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/19112733/2-Study-Version-of-the-Racing-Rules-of-Sailing-for-2025-2028.pdf
Created: 24-Oct-29 18:59
P
Niko Kotsatos
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
That's helpful. Where is that from? Is it available to the public?
Created: 24-Oct-29 19:02
Lorenz Buchler
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • International Race Officer
  • Regional Race Officer
  • National Race Officer
0
It is public and from the world sailing website. Navigate to the 2025-28 rules. 
Created: 24-Oct-29 19:18
Tj Shea
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Marks original post with the link to the prescriptions is working.  I just downloaded them at 1647 EDT 29 Oct 25

US-Sailing-Prescriptions-for-2025-2028-10.29.2024.pdf 277 KB
Created: 24-Oct-29 20:18
Richard Reitmeyer
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Club Judge
1
Thank you very much Mark. A < 24h turnaround is very prompt indeed.
Created: 24-Oct-30 00:37
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