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Abandonment query
Paul Kimmens
Certifications:
National Race Officer
0
I was delivering a race officer course at the weekend and during the course we were discussing starting penalties and one of the students pointed out a possible error in rule 30.2 relating to the use of Flag Z.
The rule states “………She shall be penalised even if the race is restarted or resailed, but not if it is postponed or abandoned before the starting signal…….” This led to a discussion about abandoning before the starting signal.
In the 2025-2028 rules the section on Flag Signals states that all of the variations of Flag N apply only to races in progress, but there is no definition of what in progress means. Therefore my assumption was that all variations of Flag N could not be used before the starting signal. In all of the change documents I have seen this has been highlighted as a change to race management. I am assuming that as the flag descriptions are in the racing rules of sailing document that they are part of the rules
However rule 27.3 states that all variations of flag N can be used before the starting signal.
Therefore I guess my question is what does ‘in progress’ mean as there appears to be a conflict between the race signals section and rule 27.3. Additionally if rule 27.3 is correct how do you signal an abandonment before the starting signal?
Am I missing something?
Extracts from the WS 2025-2028 RRS document on the WS website are below.
Paul, I don't think you are missing anything. I believe 27.3 and 30.2 should have been updated when the signals were changed. I have always been taught that you cannot abandon anything that has not started and have always postponed a race before the starting signal. The new wording to the signals confirms this but I agree that 27.3 and 30.2 probably conflict with this view.in in conflict. But does it really matter?
Created: Today 05:38
P
John Allan
Certifications:
National Race Officer
National Judge
0
I don't agree with the proposition that you can' abandon a race that has not yet started.
RRS 27.3 has always said
Before the starting signal, the race committee may for any reason ... abandon the race.
But I agree with John S that it doesn't really matter.
In the early versions of the 2025 RRS, RRS 32.3 said
32.3 To abandon the race, the race committee shall display flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds.
and the Race Signals with flag N only applied to races in progress.
The effect of this was that RRS 32.3 told us the only way in which a race committee could abandon a race, that is by displaying the flag signals that meant 'races in progress are abandoned', so according to the rules there was no way that a race committee could abandon any race that wasn't 'in progress'.
I agree with the above. A race is in progress after the warning signal, and whilst any boat is still racing. After this you can abandon but not with a flag signal.
Created: Today 08:47
Paul Kimmens
Certifications:
National Race Officer
0
Hi Mike,
Surely the race is not in progress at the warning signal. Boats are not even racing until the prep signal. I would have thought that the race was not in progress until at least one boat meets the definition of start.
Is there any documentation from WS that supports the meaning of ‘in progress’ to be from the warning signal?
I respect everyones responses to my question but they all appear to be opinions rather than a definition that can be used in a protest room
I don't think you are missing anything. I believe 27.3 and 30.2 should have been updated when the signals were changed.
I have always been taught that you cannot abandon anything that has not started and have always postponed a race before the starting signal.
The new wording to the signals confirms this but I agree that 27.3 and 30.2 probably conflict with this view.in in conflict.
But does it really matter?
RRS 27.3 has always said
Before the starting signal, the race committee may for any reason ... abandon the race.
But I agree with John S that it doesn't really matter.
In the early versions of the 2025 RRS, RRS 32.3 said
32.3 To abandon the race, the race committee shall display flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds.
and the Race Signals with flag N only applied to races in progress.
The effect of this was that RRS 32.3 told us the only way in which a race committee could abandon a race, that is by displaying the flag signals that meant 'races in progress are abandoned', so according to the rules there was no way that a race committee could abandon any race that wasn't 'in progress'.
RRS 32.3 has been hastily changed in the 1 Jan 2025 corrected version of RRS 2025 (Summarised here) to
32.3 To abandon a race in progress, the race committee shall display flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds.
So this rule no longer restricts how a race committee can abandon a race other than a race in progress.
So a race committee can abandon a race before it is 'in progress' or starts, and after it finishes (however unwise that may be).
It's just that there isn't a race signal to signal that a race not yet in progress is abandoned.
So strictly speaking, flying flag N on the club flag mast on a racing morning to tell people that there's no racing isn't correct.
https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Changes-to-RRS-2025-2028-that-Affect-Race-Management-rev-1.7.2025.pdf
A race is in progress after the warning signal, and whilst any boat is still racing.
After this you can abandon but not with a flag signal.
Surely the race is not in progress at the warning signal. Boats are not even racing until the prep signal. I would have thought that the race was not in progress until at least one boat meets the definition of start.
Is there any documentation from WS that supports the meaning of ‘in progress’ to be from the warning signal?
I respect everyones responses to my question but they all appear to be opinions rather than a definition that can be used in a protest room