Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Start Line as (Temporary?) Obstruction

Eric Saenger
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
During the preparation of SIs for the upcoming season, a question has come up.  A little background:  We predominantly sail W/L courses with the Start line set up in between the Windward and Leeward marks.  After starting first WW leg, boats are prohibited from crossing this line on subsequent legs, unless the pin end mark has been removed.  The RC has been treating the removal as a course change (although not signaling other than via VHF), and would only remove the mark if no boats have not rounded the top mark after starting eight PHRF fleets of a variety of keelboats.   Based on the definition change to Obstruction, this line will now be designated as an Obstruction in the SIs.  {This should give some rights to a boat that could be forced to the wrong side of a start mark.)  Due to the large number of fleets, there are occasions when the pin cannot be removed before the first boats reach the top mark, and competitors sometimes complain when this happens.

Two questions:

1.  Does the removal of this line (obstruction) really represent a course change, and should it be treated as such? 
2.  Only If "no." Can the RC use some additional discretion and remove the pin as long as they feel they will not be in the way of the fleet coming down on them, or that they will create a tactical disadvantage for the first boats to get in the vicinity?

Any other considerations?
Created: Mon 10:19

Comments

P
Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
1
I do not think this is a course change, you  can remove it even if boats have rounded the windward mark.
If they feel aggrieved they an claim redress, but they have to prove it.
Better to have better racing then no risk of redress.
This is what we have protest committees for.
Created: Mon 12:03
P
Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
1
After similar confusion in the Frostbite Series this winter (and accompanying fireworks), AYC posted this SI amendment. 

9.5 is amended as follows:
9.5 After starting, during the starting sequence for other classes, boats shall not cross the  line, in either direction. 

After starting all classes, the race committee will remove the starting line, by lowering the orange flag, removing the starting Pin, and announcing on VHF that the starting line is now open

It's pretty simple and clear and all know what to expect (now). 
Created: Mon 12:41
Gordon Davies
Certifications:
  • International Judge
2
Prohibiting crossing the line on a beat effectively  makes a big no-go area in the middle of the course.
Would it be simpler to write

When the finishing vessel displays a blue flag boats not finishing shall not cross the finishing line. 

There would be no need to remove the pin end, which only becomes a mark of the course when the RC opens the finishing line.
Created: Mon 13:43
Tom Sollas
Certifications:
  • National Judge
2
In the SI’s for one series I’m working on, we’ve defined the starting line as between a pin (defined elsewhere) and an orange flag on a staff on the RC. The “closed line” SI is worded to note that it applies to a starting line. 

So, when the orange flag is taken down, there is no starting line. The pin is just another bouy in the water. We’ve also updated to note that it’s an obstruction, when it’s a starting line.
Created: Mon 14:32
P
Niko Kotsatos
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
I agree with Michael and Angelo, though I wouldn't include the phrase "during the starting sequence" as it is indeed closed between starting sequences, during recalls, and any other time up until it is declared open.

However, this is not a course change, and does not need to be signaled by the previous mark. It can be signaled simply by lowering the orange flag if you wish, or only after all three things have been done.

RC might want to take care not to open the line when/if it would give advantage to some boats which now need to sail significantly less distance, but even this can be rectified by redress if needed.
Created: Mon 14:53
Rob Overton
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • International Umpire
3
I agree with all -- this is not a course change.  Obstructions come and go (consider right-of-way boats, when they suddenly no longer have right of way).  However, to be competitor friendly, I think the SIs should indicate when the line might disappear, and how that happens.  I suppose it's technically true that when the orange flag is removed the line no longer exists, but when the wind is light or boats are on the opposite side of the RC vessel from the flag, it might not be obvious whether the flag is up or down.  In any case, removing the orange flag to eliminate the line is more or less a secret code, and is that how we want to treat our competitors?  I prefer yanking the pin, but whatever mechanism is used should be described in the sailing instructions.  
Created: Mon 18:30
John Leech
Certifications:
  • Fleet Measurer
  • National Race Officer
2
As Gordon states, that is what we do. As soon as the fleet have started and the deadline for the start has passed we take down the orange flag, we normally adjust the pin mark in towards the Starting boat and when the first boat is coming towards the finishing line we hoist the blue flag and then boats don't come through the finishing line and if they do, we can penalise them, as we write it into our SI's
Created: Mon 19:29
Mark Townsend
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • International Umpire
  • International Judge
0
If the start line isn't restricted, its removal won't cause any problems.
Created: Tue 04:49
Anthony Howes
Nationality: South Africa
Certifications:
  • Measurer in Training
  • Judge In Training
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Club Race Officer
0
What we do with a lot of success.  Is we run a L/W Course with the Leeward mark as a gate.  That way the Start line is also the leeward gate.  The Start is into the wind around the windward mark and down through the leeward gate, and either a port rounding on the committee boat end or a starboard rounding on the pin end.  Finished by either 2 or 3 laps with a downwind finish through the same Leeward gate.  It has given us many options for ease of setting up, and sailors have some options sailing the race on wich end they want to race the leeward gate.  It also simplifies the SI.
Created: Tue 15:40
[You must be signed in to add a comment]
Cookies help us deliver our services. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn more