Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Rule 20 Question - Who on a boat hails

Jim Archer
Nationality: United States
There is no protest pending or filed about this incident. 

Rule 20.1 Hailing reads:

A boat may hail for room to tack and avoid a boat on the same tack by hailing 'Room to tack'. However, she shall not hail unless ...

My question is about the "A boat" part. The rule is silent about who on the boat. Yesterday we were sailing upwind above another boat and they were getting near shallow water. Someone on the boat yelled to us that they had to tack. There was enough water but knowing that's not my call, I replied that we would tack and we began our tack. As we were halfway through the tack, the driver yelled "well we may not tack" and they didn't.

So, the question is, who on a boat is empowered to call for room to tack and how would someone on another boat know who this person is? It seems to me that if anyone on a boat makes that hail, another boat can not know if the person making the hail is empowered to do so and should honor it. Crew discipline on his boat shouldn't be my problem. 

But that's what I think. Is there a case on this?
Created: Sun 21:58

Comments

P
Ric Crabbe
Certifications:
  • National Judge
3
That's easy.  The other boat broke 20.2(d)  When the hailed boat responds, the hailing boat shall tack as soon as possible.
It doesn't matter who on the boat hailed.  How could you possibly know if the individual making the hail is authorized to do so?  It's not your fault if a rogue person on the crew hailed you, the boat "A sailboat and the crew on board" hailed you and you responded correctly.  The other boat should have been protested.  This is important because otherwise 20 could be used tactically, calling for room to tack when having no intention of doing so. 
Created: Sun 22:24
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
2
I agree that any of the crew on board can make the hail under RRS 20.1.

I disagree that in this scenario RRS 20.2 was broken.

Jim Archer's evidence was that 'someone on the boat' (let's not argue whether they were 'crew' or not) yelled [that] they 'had to tack'.

RRS 20.1 now requires the hail to be 'room to tack'.

No hail in accordance with RRS 20.1 was made.  RRS 20.2 does not apply.

RRS 20.2(d) was not broken.
Created: Mon 00:31
Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
0
The other boat should have been protested.
The other boat should have taken a penalty voluntarily.
Created: Mon 00:32
Jim Archer
Nationality: United States
0
What change was made to RSS 20.1 and when?  I was looking at case 54 which states, in relevant part:

Question 4
What action by A constitutes a hail as required by rule 20?

Answer 4
Unlike rule 20.2(c), rule 20.1 does not require A to use specific words in her hail but, to meet the requirements of the rule, those words must clearly convey that A requires room to tack. The hail must be directed towards B and be as loud as is required in the prevailing conditions to be capable of being heard by B. A hail is primarily an oral signal, but, when the oral signal may not be heard, rule 20.4(a) requires an additional signal to draw attention to the hail. Examples are physical gestures, a whistle or horn signal, or, at night, a light signal. If boats are required to monitor a particular radio channel while racing, the hail may also be made over that channel. However, if the notice of race specifies an alternative communication, the hailing boat shall use it (see rule 20.4(b)).
Created: Mon 02:00
Jim Archer
Nationality: United States
1
Okay I see the change:

2020 - 2024

20.1. Hailing
A boat may hail for room to tack and avoid a boat on the same tack. 

2025 - 2028

20.1. Hailing
A boat may hail for room to tack and avoid a boat on the same tack by hailing 'Room to tack'. 

I suppose this change invalidates case 54. 

I'm quite sure that if a boat says that she has to tack, and I ignore it because she didn't specifically say "room to tack" and she ends up on the beach because I ignored it, I wouldn't want to go into a protest room with that as my defense. 

Further, this change opens the door for boat A to hail "I need to tack" and when boat B tacks, A can just sit there and say "I didn't say "room to tack" so haha!" 




Created: Mon 02:16
Rene Nusse
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
  • Umpire In Training
1
Jim, the amendments to Rule 14 may have some bearing on ignoring an incorrect hail as it is now reads RRS 14(c) "If reasonably possible, a boat shall not cause contact between a boat and an object that should be avoided." Furthermore, your second scenario may arguable be challenged pursuant to RRS 2 (Fair Sailing). I must say that I agree with John's literal interpretation but at the same time, I do not entirely like the outcome. Some case law is surely to follow...
Created: Mon 03:03
Jim Archer
Nationality: United States
1
Thanks for the tip on rule 14. Even in that case, where there is a more specific rule (20.1) I think that the more specific rule applies and occupies the whole field. It has occurred to me about rule 2 but that's a harder, and sometimes more controversial, protest to make. I absolutely agree that there will be some much needed case law on this. And I do have to agree that the literal interpretation is the correct one, at least for now. 

Created: Mon 03:40
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
1
Jim, it will be extremely rare for a boat approaching an obstruction with a right to hail 'room to tack', typically overlapped to leeward or clear ahead of a boat outside her, to have to tack.  She is right of way boat, entitled to room to pass the obstruction under RRS 19.2:  she can luff head to wind, and, if necessary make a stern board, and then tack astern of the outside boat.

You're exactly right.  If a boat doesn't hail 'room to tack' in those exact words (or word  in a language other than English that it is reasonable for it to be understood by all boats affected (RS Introduction  Hails) the obligations of RRS 20.2 don't apply.  If an outside boat chooses to tack away without the proper hail, that's her choice, but the inside boat breaks no rule.
Created: Mon 05:04
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
0
Just to toss a rock into the still waters ...

The way the new RRS 20.1 is written, one might read the "may" in 2 different ways. 

20.1. Hailing
A boat may hail for room to tack and avoid a boat on the same tack by hailing 'Room to tack'. 

The first way to read it is as everyone seems to be, that the "may" applies only to the option to hail.  In this reading, it's as if the rule states...

"A boat may hail for room to tack and avoid a boat on the same tack [.  When doing so, she shall hail] by hailing 'Room to tack'. 

Unfortunately, the rule does not state that or use "shall" in any way.

The 2nd way to read it is that "may" commutes across the sentence. In that reading, RRS 20.1 is stating one way that a boat may hail for room to tack, but it is not the exclusive way to do so. 

A boat may hail ... by hailing "room to tack" [but may hail by hailing something else]. 

For comparison, let's look at how the other required hails are exclusively specified ... that's "protest" and "you tack".  

First, here is 60.1 and 60.2 combined into a similar statement as 20.1. 

60.1 & 60.2
"A boat or committee may protest a boat. If a protest concerns an incident observed by the protestor in the racing area: (1) If the protestor is a boat, she shall hail ‘Protest’..."

Very clear indeed .. she shall hail ‘Protest’.  Also notice how the "may" is limited to the act of protesting ("may protest") by the period ending the sentence (just like I did above). 

2nd, Let's look just further within 20.2(c) ... ".. shall respond .. by immediately replying 'you tack' .."

A hailed boat shall respond either by tacking as soon as possible, or by immediately replying ‘You tack’ and then giving the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her.

All this is to say that the rules demonstrate elsewhere how to be restrictive in requiring a specific hail.  They do that by using the word "shall" prior to the hail.  Rule 20.1 does not say "shall" prior to "room to tack".

Therefore, i think it can be argued that if a boat clearly coveys they need room to tack through an hail, and the other boat tacks ... then the hailing-boat better tack ASAP. 

I think 20.1 should be reworded to use the same declarative sentence structure, using "shall", as 60.2 (as shown above), if that is the intent of the rule. 
Created: Mon 13:59
Jim Archer
Nationality: United States
1
Ang, an interesting analysis. But that begs the question, if this analysis was correct, what was the purpose of the rule change? It would seem the only reason to change the rule was to make the term "room to tack" mandatory language. 
Created: Mon 15:06
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
0
Jim ... I agree.  That said, IMO we need to read the rules only in the context of what is written ... not what came before it or the submissions which generated it.  The prior versions of the RRS are no longer rules, nor are the submissions authoritative.

How 20.1 is written it does not use "shall" like 60.2 or 20.2(c).

The other place this structure is apparent is in taking a Scoring Penalty.

44.1 states that a boat may take a penalty and the NOR may allow scoring penalties 

44.3(a) states that a boat takes the penalty by displaying the yellow flag.  

44.3(b) states when the boat takes a scoring penalty, she  "shall" keep the flag flying until finishing. 

Again, it's the structure of "may" do something ... then once the decision is made, then a "shall" in the execution of it.  That distinction is made by separating the "may" in a separate sentence. 
Created: Mon 15:20
John Christman
Certifications:
  • International Umpire
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
0
While I appreciate Ang's may/shall discussion, especially w.r.t. the hail of protest, I think that because the words 'room to tack' are in quotes that makes the use of those words mandatory.  I.e. you may ask for room by using those words.  You can put other words around them but you have to use them.  The problem is that there is no requirement that those words actually be heard.  I would have liked to see them require the arm signals in addition to the hail.

As a matter of course, as the hailed boat, I would never respond with anything but 'you tack' with arm signals.  Until the hailing boat start to luff, which I would have to keep clear of anyway because of RRS 11, I would do nothing.
Created: Mon 17:10
Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
0
John A's comment:  "If an outside boat chooses to tack away without the proper hail, that's her choice"
ignores 20.2b
The hailed boat shall respond even if the hail breaks rule 20.1. (assuming an improperly worded hail breaks 20.1)
Created: Yesterday 20:06
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
0
Philip ... that's a good question.  The question is then, "when does a hail break rule 20.1?"  

Does a hail other than "room to tack" simply not satisfy the rule (thus is it not under 20's jurisdiction) or does it break the rule?
Created: Yesterday 22:06
John Christman
Certifications:
  • International Umpire
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
0
20.2(b) kind of makes the words irrelevant as you are required to respond no matter what.  After that how many people are going to protest?
Created: Yesterday 23:21
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
0
Agree with Ang's second point.

RRS 20.1 chapeau is permissive 'may'.  A boat cannot 'break' that part of the rule.

RRS 20.1(a) and (b) and the last sentence are prohibitory.  A boat can break those rules.

A boat may hail 'room to tack', in which case RRS 20 applies.

A boat may hail 'I feel like a Tooheys' in which case none of RRS 20 applies.
Created: Yesterday 23:24
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
0
All this goes back to my (unpopular) idea up top.  20.1 should have the same clear, declarative structure that the other 2 hails in the RRS have ... in 60.1-60.2 and 20.2(c).

A boat may <action>.  If <action>, the boat shall hail <hail-words>. 
Created: Yesterday 23:38
John Christman
Certifications:
  • International Umpire
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
0
John A - I think the point is that a boat approaching an obstruction has the option to ask for room to tack by hailing, she is not required to request room.  In the case of a boat they must both keep clear of, they could take action other than tacking, i.e. ducking, in which case rule 19 comes into play.

The hail of 'room to tack' is not what turns on 20.2.  20.2(b) says that the hailed boat shall respond.  This is true whether or not the hail is valid.  The hailed boat has no choice but to respond in one of two ways.  And if there is no option to let the other boat tack and avoid, she has to tack no matter what, no options.  Then you can start to argue about what was actually said versus what was heard, but by that time the damage is done.  In many cases the boat hailing for room has gained an advantage by doing it.
Created: Yesterday 23:38
John Christman
Certifications:
  • International Umpire
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
0
Ang - it's not unpopular with me, if we have to have this rule, it should be declarative.  You still don't know what the required hail is.  Does the statement 'In three boats lengths we will need room to tack' count as a hail?
Created: Yesterday 23:41
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
0
John C ... no .. I think that's prudent communication that clearly states that they don't need room to tack now.  A boat making that call to a close boat should expect to follow that up with "room to tack" ... and have a shorter fuse in expecting the action/reply by the boat being forewarned. 

PS: thanks for the morale support :-)
Created: Yesterday 23:49
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