Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing
Combining RRS 17 and RRS 18.4 - What it might look like
P
Angelo GuarinoCertifications:
- Regional Judge
1
Here's a go at it ..
17.ON THE SAME TACK[OVERLAPPED]; PROPER COURSE
17.1 If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above her proper course while they remain on the same tack and overlapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails astern of the other boat.
17.2 When an inside overlapped right-of-way boat [is inside the zone of a mark that she] must gybe ata markto sail her proper course, until she gybes she shall sail not further from the mark than needed to sailthat[her proper] course. Rule18.4[17.2] does not apply at a gate mark.
Couple notes:
- I added the condition of being inside the zone of the mark
- Now that "Sail the Course" is a defined term, using the phrase "sail that course" in 18.4 is less obvious. It only costs one more word, so I think swapping "that" with "her proper" makes it much clearer (I've been reading other comments on the forum and I'm not the only one who is swapping "the" for "that" in 18.4).
- Do we want to add a 2 or 3 boat length trigger (like RRS 17.1) for 18.4? As it is written now, technically a boat could break 18.4 and be the only boat in the zone.
When put together like this, it seems to make sense to me. Thoughts?
Comments
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I need to read more closely over time, but just as an idea to solve 'that' issue.... have the words 'proper course' only once. Perhaps you don't need the first instance...
I'm happy with where rule 18.4 is - tucked away nicely in Section C - AT MARKS AND OBSTRUCTIONS - just where one would expect to find it.
Cheers, hope you're keeping well.
Now 18.1(b) and MR(c)'s "leave it astern" can't touch it.
Regarding saying "proper course" 2x, it doesn't bother me as the 2 uses are different applications of the term "proper course".
The first use is a conditional test (an if/when) and the 2nd is limitation bounding the course that can be sailed.
PS: Doing fine, thanks! Heading down to the boatyard to do some fairing on my 105. Fun fun.
This seems like a solution looming for a problem to me.
So I do not see any benefit by trying to combine these two rules. And it moves a reference about mark obligations out of R 18.
John
I think the problem is 18.1(b) shutting down 18.4 prematurely.
(Perhaps that's the rule which needs modifying. instead Ang.) Consider this..
Anyway...
Yes, 18.4 is about marks, but it's connection to mark-room and premature expiry when it is still needed is problematic. It is given way to much weight of importance in discussions, which is in some cases dangerous.
R17 is generally about proper course and so is 18.4. Also 18.4 is more similar to 17 than any other rule. It's a limitation on RoW, rather than any giving of rights to room. So perhaps Section B is appropriate,
So I can see the reason for Ang's muses. I'm not sure if they'll get anywhere though.
I had actually never considered their similarities before.
To John and Phil's points ... yea 18.4 had to do with a mark ... but our point is it has nothing to do with who is/is not entitled to Mark Room (which is the heart of 18).
On the other hand, 17 and 18.4 both have nearly the same limit on ROW's course ... which is to bound that course by the limits of "proper course" envelope. Is there any other rule in the RRS that does so?
Given that similarity and the fact that 18.4 has nothing to do with who does or does not get mark-room .. it makes sense to me.