Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Use chatGPT for discribe NoR &SI

Yoshiaki Yamada
Nationality: Japan
Certifications:
  • Fleet Measurer
  • Regional Race Officer
  • National Judge
Hello, nice to meet you. I am a sailor from Japan, and I would like to consult with knowledgeable individuals.

Have you ever used ChatGPT to create NoR (Notice of Race) or SI (Sailing Instructions)? As you know, NoR and SI are essential documents that define the regatta. While creating these documents, I always carefully check to ensure they do not conflict with the Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) or the relevant class rules.

NoR and SI need to be concise and clearly written. However, it’s common for overlapping content to appear in both documents, or for phrasing from previous editions to inadvertently cause inconsistencies between the NoR and SI.

I believe that tasks like reviewing these documents for consistency and ensuring compliance with RRS and class rules are areas where AI tools like ChatGPT could excel. My goal is to simplify the labor-intensive tasks before the competition and provide a better event for the sailors.

Please share your insights and expertise.
Created: Sat 11:12

Comments

Calum Polwart
0
I'm a massive ChatGPT sceptic.

ChatGPT doesn't understand what it write. It just knows what everyone else would write on a topic.

So ChatGPT will say that a race should start at 11am, there will be 3 races and 1 race counts as a series of that's what it learned from the various NoR it read in the past is "normal".  Of course it also isn't going to be great at differentiating a NoR from RRS 2008-12 vs 2025-2029. Especially as it hasn't even learned on 2025 content.

If the question is - can you supply chat GPT the NoR, SI and RRS and ask if there are any discrepancy - perhaps - you can of course try it by introducing some discrepancy.

If you are saying to Chat GPT "Write me a NoR for a Laser regatta on weekend of 1st and 2nd April. Entry costs £50"... I suspect you would want to edit it a LOT... Which considering there are already NoR templates begs the question why...

But you could try it for a fictitious event and upload the prompts used and the outputs and see what people think




Created: Sat 13:05
Gordon Davies
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
Some countries, like France, use standard documents, prepared by the MNA with one page for local details.
Another idea is to prepare a template with different options. The WS templates are not always up to date, and are intended mostly for dinghy events.
Here in Ireland we are preparing NoR and SI templates, including alternative wordings for common situtaions
My issues with Chat GPT would be:
- are they using up to date rules, and applying modern best practice
- how will race documents be adapted to local circumstances.
Created: Sat 13:30
Jacopo Morelli
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Regional Judge
0
I use ChatGPT very often for daily problems, but not for RRS, NoR, SI, etc. I think there is not enough material on the internet for the chatbot to create a realistic and usable response. Often, the response is not wrong, but it is written with 'nautical words' (this is especially true for non-English questions), and you need to check the document and correct all the form errors.

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I've tried to ask ChatGPT why the responses to my questions are sometimes not usable. This is the answer:

I understand your frustration! The main issue is that racing rules, notices of race, and sailing instructions are technical documents that are frequently updated and often use very specific terminology. I can provide answers based on my knowledge, but for precise and up-to-date information, it's always best to refer to official documents from the Italian Sailing Federation (FIV), World Sailing, or the race organizing committee.

If you point out any errors in my responses, I can improve the way I assist you. For example, I can better adapt to the correct technical language and guide you to more reliable sources when necessary. If you’d like, I can also help you interpret a notice of race or sailing instructions if you provide them!
Created: Sat 13:31
Zev Fort
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
0
I agree that ChatGPT probably should not be used to create NOR/SIs at this point in its evolution, although I think it could be used to point out discrepancies/compare documents. But, I definitely think it has other possible purposes in the officiating side of our sport. It is really good at making schedules and things if given specific parameters (hearing schedules?), and the newer models are good at large data base analysis (uploading many years of local wind history and the forecast of the day to find the best time to start a race?). That being said, I think that everything written by it should of course be checked, especially if it references the rules or has requirements it must meet in the RRS etc.
Created: Sat 14:12
P
Beau Vrolyk
Forum Moderator
0
I have been following and testing the various AI tools floating around since their introduction.

None of them are appropriate for highly structured documents like SIs and NoRs. Other types of users have come to the same conclusion. The reason is that ChatGPT (and all the others) were never intended to create highly structured and carefully unambiguous language. Their goal is to write in a way that most people recognize and might think was performed by a human.

Neither SIs nor NoRs are targeted at writing in this way. My view is that a NoR is a contract between a competitor and an Organizing Authority, as well as a solicitation for competitors to participate. I do not believe that the NoR should attempt to be a piece of marketing literature. That should be a separate document provided to competitors. As such, the exact terms of art are critical and deviating from the sample in RRS Appendix J is risky. Most of the problems that I've had to solve were created by a human trying to be "creative" with the language rather than adhering to Appendix J.

This is not to say that Appendix J covers every issue. Additions based on specific regulatory, environmental, and physical factors need to be included. But altering Appendix J's language is most often a serious mistake. 
Created: Sat 14:29
Rob Overton
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • International Umpire
0
I agree with all the comments above. AI doesn't have any concept of "consistent" unless trained in specific data sets to develop consistent documents in that particular context.  It's also not clear what you would gain by using a generalized model like ChatGP -- you'd have to provide it with all the specific information, like number of races, dates and times, etc., and by the time you did that you could have simply filled out the templates in Appendices KG and NG.  Alternatively, you could use Appendix S for your sailing instructions, though I haven't seen that done for many years.
Created: Sat 16:05
Lorenz Buchler
Nationality: Germany
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • International Race Officer
  • Regional Race Officer
  • National Race Officer
0
World sailing has standard documents for this and some MNAs have translated ones as well. I don’t see the need to use AI for those documents. 
Created: Sat 18:16
Philip Hubbell
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
1
> "tasks like reviewing these documents for consistency and ensuring compliance with RRS...  are areas where AI tools like ChatGPT could excel."
If you want really critical review of your documents, just offer them up right here at "chatRRS."  :-)
Created: Sat 19:54
Calum Polwart
0
You made me curious what it might produce. I don't pay for ChatGPT so I think I have an older model.

To the prompt:
Write me a notice of race for a sailing event

It gave something not too dissimilar to the World Sailing templates. I didn't go through it line by line. But similar idea, and nothing immediately looked wrong. But lots of [enter XX here].

It asked "would I like specific customisation for my event" and so I played along and said "yes".

It gave me a list of things to consider. I told it some dates but nothing more. Just doing that, it started to hallucinate information. I was still getting a template for changes. But it decided that the 3 day even I suggested, day 1 was for registration & briefing. 

It then asked if I wanted to fill in the missing details or for ChatGPT to do it. So being cheeky I said he should do it, but didn't give any details!

I still got some [fields] to complete. But it started to get stuff wrong. 


2. RULES

2.1 The regatta will be governed by:

  • The Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) 2021-2024.

  • The class rules of the participating boats.

  • The sailing instructions, which may amend certain rules.



3. ELIGIBILITY AND ENTRY

3.1 The event is open to the following classes:

  • Dinghies: Optimist, ILCA (Laser) 4, 6, 7

  • Keelboats: J/70, J/24, ORC



4. FEES

  • Single-handed dinghies: $50 per boat

  • Double-handed dinghies: $75 per boat

  • Keelboats: $150 per boat

  • Late entry fee: Additional $20 after 25th May


I'm in the UK, so why it would set prices in dollars I don't know. Not very intelligent ;-). But now we have AI picking my event costs, picking boat classes,  using last year's rules.


8. COURSES

Courses will be a combination of windward-leeward and triangle configurations for dinghies and coastal courses for keelboats. Final details will be included in the sailing instructions.


And it's picked the courses 



9. SCORING

  • The Low Point Scoring System (RRS Appendix A) will apply.

  • A minimum of three races must be completed for the regatta to be valid.

  • One discard will apply if five or more races are completed.

And let's hope the weather is good - because I have to get 3 races in to even get people a result. (The discard language is not standard)



12. INSURANCE

Each participating boat must have valid third-party liability insurance with a minimum coverage of $500,000 (or equivalent in local currency).


That insurance is very low.

Anyway. I decided to ask it to write the accompanying SI...

We stayed with the 2021-24 RRS.
The courses no longer included triangles. 
Oddly there was a whole section on recalls.
It picked race durations etc for me. That's the kind of thing if you didn't notice could be problematic (90mins).

But now the SI conflicted with the NoR and said. 1 race to count as a series.


14. PENALTIES

14.1 RRS 44.1 applies, with a Two-Turns Penalty for rule breaches.
14.2 For keelboats, the penalty may be a One-Turn Penalty, at the discretion of the jury.



16. SAFETY REGULATIONS

16.1 All competitors must wear personal flotation devices (PFDs) at all times while afloat, except briefly while changing clothes.

Pretty sure that needs a 'this amends rule 40'

So I then asked it to check for discrepancies.


4. SCHEDULE OF RACES

Discrepancy:

  • The NoR states the prize-giving ceremony is at 16:00 on 3rd June but the SIs do not specify a time limit for the last warning signal on that day.
    Fix: Add to the SIs:

  • "No warning signal will be made after 15:00 on 3rd June to ensure the prize-giving can proceed as scheduled."

Since it's a 90 minute race, the maths doesn't add up!!




5. SCORING

Discrepancy:

  • The NoR states that one discard applies if five or more races are completed, but the SIs do not explicitly mention this in Section 13.
    Fix: Add to the SIs (Section 13.3):

  • "If fewer than five races are completed, a boat’s total score will be the sum of all races sailed. If five or more races are completed, the worst score will be discarded."

Why would you need things twice?.this verbage however is closer to normal.

It missed the 3 vs 1 for a series


6. COURSE & RACING AREA

No major discrepancies. However, if different courses apply to different fleets (e.g., windward-leeward for dinghies, coastal for keelboats), the NoR should explicitly state this for clarity.


It missed that the triangles are gone!!


7. TIME LIMITS

No discrepancy. The SIs specify a 90-minute time limit per race, which aligns with standard practice.


Standard practice? According to who? It decided this was an Oppi race... We are going to break some kids!

I asked it if the last warning signal was at 3pm when the prize giving could be. It told me the last race would finish at 4 because the race time was 90 minutes... But it then understood to protest time limit and said that means 5pm.at the earliest. 

To be fair it does then say "would you like me to update the documents"  ... But it's also wrong!!
Created: Sun 01:43
Rob Overton
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • International Umpire
0
Calum, thank you. You (and ChatGPT) made my day. As a judge, I frequently deal with notices of race and sailing instructions that are not well written, but the errors that ChatGPT makes are much more ... inspired?
Created: Sun 07:06
P
Beau Vrolyk
Forum Moderator
1

In a related way, there is a great use of AI that doesn't "write" the documents for you, but it can help you figure out where to look in all the various documents that already exist for examples and most importantly for Cases that interact with specific term and situations to inform the correct use of all the various sources.

It is called "NotebookLM" and can be found here: https://notebooklm.google/

A good friend, who is a tremendously successful navigator, vectored me to it. I have entered all of the current versions of every World Sailing and US Sailing document I can find. I called it "Racing Rules of Sailing" which is ambiguous (duh) but helpful to me. NotebookLM has scanned all the files and can answer questions complete with links to all the places it found the answers. That last bit is critical, as NotebookLM makes mistakes, so before I use an "answer", I check out the correct source documents.

This has been tremendously helpful when drafting NoRs and SIs.

Here is what NotebookLM had to say about what I built:

"The provided texts encompass various aspects of sailing regulations and their interpretation, offering guidance for both competitors and race officials. Several documents, including the Racing Rules of Sailing and associated Case Books, clarify the application of specific rules through examples and scenarios, addressing topics like right-of-way, penalties, mark roundings, and protests. There are also Call Books tailored for team and match racing formats, providing specific umpire guidance. Additionally, some sources detail rules and procedures specific to windsurfing slalom, while others outline changes and updates to the racing rules effective in 2025-2028 and provide guidance for race management and judging."

I entered this question to NotebookLM: "How do I change the size of the zone around a mark?"

NotebookLM had this to say in response to my question:

"Based on the sources, the size of the zone around a mark is defined within specific sets of racing rules. Here's what the sources indicate:
• For Superyacht Racing Rules, the zone around a mark is defined as 300 metres. A boat is in the zone when any part of her hull is within this distance.
• For Reduced Visibility Racing Rules, the zone around a mark is defined as 200 metres. A boat is in the zone when any part of her hull is in this distance.
The standard Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) definition of the zone and its size are not explicitly stated in these excerpts, but the existence of different zone sizes for different racing rule variations (like superyachts and reduced visibility) suggests that the default size is likely defined in the main RRS document, which is not fully provided here.
How to change the size of the zone:
The sources do not explicitly detail how to change the size of the zone. However, based on the information provided, it is likely that:
• The default size of the zone is set within the standard Racing Rules of Sailing. To change this fundamentally, a modification to the RRS themselves would likely be required, which is a process undertaken by World Sailing.
• For specific events or types of racing (like superyacht or reduced visibility racing), the rules may be modified as indicated by the different zone sizes defined in the appendices for these specific contexts.
• The sailing instructions for a particular event might have the authority to specify or modify definitions, including the size of the zone, although the provided sources do not explicitly grant this power. Rule 86.1(b) mentions that the notice of race may only replace all the rules of Part 2 with all the right-of-way rules of the IRPCAS or government rules, suggesting limitations on altering fundamental rules within event-specific documents.
Therefore, to determine if and how the size of the zone can be changed for a specific race or event, you would need to:
1. Identify which set of racing rules are applicable to the event. This information is usually found in the Notice of Race and Sailing Instructions.
2. Consult the definitions within those specific rules to find the defined size of the zone.
3. Check the Sailing Instructions for any specific modifications to the definitions or rules regarding the zone.
4. If you are looking to change the zone size for a broader context (beyond a single event), this would likely involve proposing a change to the Racing Rules of Sailing to World Sailing.
It's important to note that the provided sources do not give a definitive answer on whether the sailing instructions for a regular event can alter the size of the zone. However, they do show that the zone size can differ between specific rule variations."

BTW: I have yet to find a text version of the Racing Rules, but have stuffed the PDF into NotebookLM to see if it'll hack through it and understand it.
Created: Sun 18:35
P
Beau Vrolyk
Forum Moderator
1
One more NotebookLM example:

Question: "Which cases apply to tacking in the zone?"

Answer:

"Based on the sources, the following cases and rules apply to tacking in the zone around a mark:
CASE 15 discusses a boat clear ahead that is tacking to round a mark and states that this boat must comply with rule 13 (While Tacking).
CASE 33 mentions a scenario where an inside overlapped boat tacks into that position and is still entitled to room at an obstruction under rule 19.2(b). While this involves tacking near an obstruction, it could be a mark in a zone.
CASE 81 is relevant because it states that when a boat entitled to mark-room under rule 18.2(b) passes head to wind (as part of a tack), rule 18.2(b) ceases to apply. This highlights the consequence of tacking within the zone on mark-room entitlement.
CASE 95 similarly indicates that if two overlapped boats on the same tack on a beat to windward turn past head to wind (tacking), rule 18 ceases to apply. This also pertains to the interaction between tacking in the zone and the applicability of rule 18.
• The definition of Mark-Room includes "room to sail to the mark...and room to round or pass it as necessary to sail the course". For a boat to round a mark, especially on a beat to windward, tacking might be a necessary manoeuvre within the zone, and the definition implies space for this.
Rule 13 itself, titled "While Tacking", will apply to any boat tacking within the zone. Case 15 specifically refers to this rule in the context of rounding a mark.
Rule 18.3 is titled "Mark-Room: Passing Head to Wind in the Zone". This rule directly addresses the situation of a boat passing head to wind in the zone, which is a key part of tacking. The 2025 rule changes highlight a significant update to this rule concerning tacking in the zone of a port-hand mark.
In the context of Team Racing Rules:
TR CALL A1 asks about when a leeward boat is permitted to sail above her proper course when an overlap is established while one boat is tacking or shortly thereafter. This scenario could occur near a mark.
TR CALL B2 deals with situations where boats luff head to wind and one continues past head to wind, potentially involving a tack near the start line (which could have marks and a zone).
TR CALL B4 describes a boat that intends to tack but loses way before reaching a close-hauled course, while another boat bears away onto a collision course. This could occur near the zone of a starting mark.
TR CALL E1 presents a scenario where a boat luffs to tack around a mark but is prevented by another boat in the zone.
TR CALL E2 involves two overlapped boats approaching a mark, where the outside boat gives room to luff to head to wind, but contact occurs when the inside boat begins to tack.
TR CALL E3 describes a boat at the zone of a mark that luffs and passes head to wind, followed by another boat also luffing to round the mark, resulting in contact.
TR CALL E6 discusses a boat on port tack that completes a tack within the zone clear ahead of another boat.
TR CALL E13 involves a boat leaving a mark to port and luffing but not passing head to wind, while another boat passes head to wind and cannot bear away, potentially due to the first boat's position. This relates to the space required after a tack near a mark.
TR CALL E15 specifically addresses a boat that tacks inside the zone and to leeward of another boat when approaching a mark.
TR CALL D8 involves two boats on port tack both starting to tack around the same time, leading to contact before reaching close-hauled on starboard.
In the context of Match Racing Rules:
MR CALL N6 defines that for the purpose of taking a penalty, tacking is changing course from close-hauled on one tack, through head to wind, to close-hauled on the other. While not a racing incident case in a zone, it clarifies the definition of tacking within the rules.
Finally, the 2025 Rule Changes highlight a significant change in rule 18.3 regarding when a boat tacks in the zone of a port-hand mark from port to starboard tack and is inside another boat. This indicates the importance of tacking in the zone as a specific scenario addressed by the rules."
Created: Sun 18:39
P
Niko Kotsatos
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
I wonder how ChatGPT would do reconciling last year's NOR and SI with this year's template. I will try to find out at some point this spring.
Created: Yesterday 14:52
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