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This one is kinda weird so thank you for your help...
Two ILCA (Laser) sailboats were out in front of the pack so we'll just worry about these two. No one else around the windward mark to worry about. Per usual, the windward mark must be left to Port.
As they approach the windward mark, Boat 2 (Green) was inside overlapped Boat 1 (Red) at the 3 boat length circle. RRS Rule 18.2 (a)(1) turns on. giving Boat 2 (Green) Mark Room.
And now the wind shifts (there wasn't much wind so they weren't going that fast) and now neither boat is fetching. Both will have to tack from Stbd to Port, then back from Port to Stbd to round the mark.
Assuming there is no oncoming traffic to worry about...how SHOULD this play out for these two unfortunate souls according to the rules?
My two cents worth... Let's assume Rule 18 applies because two boats are required to leave a mark on the same side, and at least one of them is in the zone. Furthermore, none of the exemptions under 18.1 apply. If, in your scenario, the first of the two boats (Red) reaches the zone and is overlapped with Green, the outside boat (Red) at that moment shall give the inside boat (Green) mark-room—18.2(a)(1). However, a change in wind direction dictates that both boats must sail under the lay line and are no longer fetching the mark. Green must tack, and therefore, Rule 18.2(a) stops applying due to the application of 18.2(b), i.e., the boat entitled to mark-room passes head to wind... (I'm unsure if this was the intended outcome of this Rule). However, 18.2(c) now dictates that the outside boat shall give the inside boat mark-room. I see no reason Green would lose the right to mark room despite room being granted under different sections. I humbly and with sincerity await your comments... image.png134 KB
One of my favourite sayings is "it depends". It depends here because to be aggressive, Green has to force Red to tack, because all she can do, other than bearing away to gybe and come back to the mark, is (1) force Red to tack or (2) try to "shoot " the mark.
(1) Green is ROW leeward in the diagram with Mark-Room. Green luffs head to wind forcing Red to tack. Green continues her luff by tacking (which turns off her RRS 18 Mark-Room) and she probably becomes windward overlapped give-way on port tack subject to RRS 11 - having to keep clear of Red.
Given the momentum of the boats Red, which is now ROW, luffs Green. Green tacks and is probably now fetching the mark. If Geen isn't fetching the mark, she iniiates the same manoeuvre until she is fetching. And at this point, if she is overlapped to leeward, she will once again have Mark-Room.
And all this depends on whether whether there are other boats trying to round the mark. Actually I would expect the above suggested scenario to occur in match racing rather then fleet racing.
(2) Trying to shoot the mark is dangerous, because if she looses way, she might be trapped close to the mark, and Green will have to adopt the above manoeuvre anyway.
I agree with Phil up to the point that Green has tacked. My reading of the new rules is that 18.2(a) is turned off when Green passes head to wind by 18.2(b). 18.2(c) comes into play. Assuming that the boats were overlapped throughout their tacks 'the outside boat shall give the inside boat mark-room'. In your diagram, the outside boat, Red, is able to give mark-room after the tack, so 18.2(d) does not apply. If no contact, no rule broken. But if there's that little wind I'd be at the mark, whistle in mouth and yellow flag hand twitching. ;)
Just some extra thoughts to add to Renes drawing, since tacks 1 and 2 are slightly different, and this is from my point of view something new in RRS 2025-2028:
First tack of Green (starboard to port):
Mark-room of Green ends when Green passes head to wind (18.2(b)). (If Red tacks first, mark-room of Green ends because of 18.1(a)(1).) Green has to keep clear of Red (WR 13), this also if both boats tack at the same time. As soon as both boats are on port and overlapped (probably during the tack!), Green aquires mark-room again (18.2(c)).
Second tack of either boat (port to starboard):
(a) Green tacks first: Green continues to be Keep-clear-boat (13), after tack Green becomes Row-Boat (12 or 11, note: Green has initially to give Red room to keep clear, 15). Mark-room of Green ends passing head to wind (18.1(a)(1), 18.2(b)), but now (differently to tack 1) no new mark-room is established (18.3).
(b) Red tacks first: Red becomes keep-clear-boat (13) and still has to give mark-room. If Green chooses not to use that opportunity and tacks at once, Green becomes Keep-clear-boat (13, note: No 15 on Red here!), and ends her mark-room passing head to wind (18.2(b), no 18.1(a)(1)). Again, no new mark-room is established (18.3).
In both cases: As soon as Green is on a close-hauled course, she becomes Row (11 or 12, 15!), and when changing course at or after the mark she has to give Red room to keep clear (16.1).
Btw.: If the overlap is established (in/after tack 2) not by Green from clear astern, 17 is off, and Green has no obligation to go down at the mark, she may even luff Red (11, 16.1).
Frank adds the important insight (we discussed in great detail in this comment/thread). When both boats are inside the zone on port and tack to starboard inside the zone to round, it does not matter who tacks first, there is no mark-room to either boat.
Boats should focus on their rights and obligations under the rules of Part 2, Section A & B.
SO to throw the tactics into it, aside from the rules, it would seem to make sense for Red to sail to or better past the port tack layline before tacking. Likely, the overlap would be broken in subsequent tack.
And it would seem to make sense for Green to try (depends on the sailing characteristics of the boats) to pinch hard enough to force Red to tack.
Seems like it would come down to how close Green is to Red's lee bow.
Red could try to go on as long as possible on starboard, keeping clear of Green, but not tacking. Gets tricky when Green fights back luffing, and both boats end up standing still head to wind side by side, Red needs to keep clear then even if they start moving backwards…
Maybe after being luffed by Green, Red has a bit of a chance to tack just before it stops moving into the wind, going down as far as needed to break the overlap to Green and trying to speed up and stay ahead on port to avoid reestablishing of an overlap.
Green would tack and not go down (i.e. follow Red), but sail close-hauled to the mark to re-establish an inner overlap asap (18.2(c)). Would be difficult for Red to argue she had not been able to give that mark-room (see 18.2(d)).
The rest has been discussed above: Green has advantage in all following constellations.
Overall, Green seems from my POV to have the better options to be first after this mark, whatever Red does from the moment they entered the zone.
One of my favourite sayings is "it depends". It depends here because to be aggressive, Green has to force Red to tack, because all she can do, other than bearing away to gybe and come back to the mark, is (1) force Red to tack or (2) try to "shoot " the mark.
(1) Green is ROW leeward in the diagram with Mark-Room. Green luffs head to wind forcing Red to tack. Green continues her luff by tacking (which turns off her RRS 18 Mark-Room) and she probably becomes windward overlapped give-way on port tack subject to RRS 11 - having to keep clear of Red.
Given the momentum of the boats Red, which is now ROW, luffs Green. Green tacks and is probably now fetching the mark. If Geen isn't fetching the mark, she iniiates the same manoeuvre until she is fetching. And at this point, if she is overlapped to leeward, she will once again have Mark-Room.
And all this depends on whether whether there are other boats trying to round the mark. Actually I would expect the above suggested scenario to occur in match racing rather then fleet racing.
(2) Trying to shoot the mark is dangerous, because if she looses way, she might be trapped close to the mark, and Green will have to adopt the above manoeuvre anyway.
18.2(c) comes into play. Assuming that the boats were overlapped throughout their tacks 'the outside boat shall give the inside boat mark-room'.
In your diagram, the outside boat, Red, is able to give mark-room after the tack, so 18.2(d) does not apply.
If no contact, no rule broken. But if there's that little wind I'd be at the mark, whistle in mouth and yellow flag hand twitching. ;)
Just some extra thoughts to add to Renes drawing, since tacks 1 and 2 are slightly different, and this is from my point of view something new in RRS 2025-2028:
First tack of Green (starboard to port):
Mark-room of Green ends when Green passes head to wind (18.2(b)). (If Red tacks first, mark-room of Green ends because of 18.1(a)(1).)
Green has to keep clear of Red (WR 13), this also if both boats tack at the same time.
As soon as both boats are on port and overlapped (probably during the tack!), Green aquires mark-room again (18.2(c)).
Second tack of either boat (port to starboard):
(a) Green tacks first:
Green continues to be Keep-clear-boat (13), after tack Green becomes Row-Boat (12 or 11, note: Green has initially to give Red room to keep clear, 15).
Mark-room of Green ends passing head to wind (18.1(a)(1), 18.2(b)), but now (differently to tack 1) no new mark-room is established (18.3).
(b) Red tacks first: Red becomes keep-clear-boat (13) and still has to give mark-room. If Green chooses not to use that opportunity and tacks at once, Green becomes Keep-clear-boat (13, note: No 15 on Red here!), and ends her mark-room passing head to wind (18.2(b), no 18.1(a)(1)). Again, no new mark-room is established (18.3).
In both cases:
As soon as Green is on a close-hauled course, she becomes Row (11 or 12, 15!), and when changing course at or after the mark she has to give Red room to keep clear (16.1).
Btw.: If the overlap is established (in/after tack 2) not by Green from clear astern, 17 is off, and Green has no obligation to go down at the mark, she may even luff Red (11, 16.1).
Boats should focus on their rights and obligations under the rules of Part 2, Section A & B.
And it would seem to make sense for Green to try (depends on the sailing characteristics of the boats) to pinch hard enough to force Red to tack.
Seems like it would come down to how close Green is to Red's lee bow.
Thoughts?
Red could try to go on as long as possible on starboard, keeping clear of Green, but not tacking. Gets tricky when Green fights back luffing, and both boats end up standing still head to wind side by side, Red needs to keep clear then even if they start moving backwards…
Maybe after being luffed by Green, Red has a bit of a chance to tack just before it stops moving into the wind, going down as far as needed to break the overlap to Green and trying to speed up and stay ahead on port to avoid reestablishing of an overlap.
Green would tack and not go down (i.e. follow Red), but sail close-hauled to the mark to re-establish an inner overlap asap (18.2(c)). Would be difficult for Red to argue she had not been able to give that mark-room (see 18.2(d)).
The rest has been discussed above: Green has advantage in all following constellations.
Overall, Green seems from my POV to have the better options to be first after this mark, whatever Red does from the moment they entered the zone.
Ideas?