Forum: Rule 18 and Room at the Mark

18.1(a)(2)

Nicolas Ch.
Nationality: France
Hi,
Could somebody help me. I don’t understand the spririt of the 18.1(a)(2), not already taken into account by the 18.1(a)(1).
“[Rule 18] does not apply between boats on opposite tacks when the proper course at the mark for one but not both of them is to tack,”
I don’t manage to find any example of boats on opposite tacks when the proper course at the mark for both of them is to tack, but not “boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward [18.1(a)(1)]”
Nicolas 
Created: Today 13:02

Comments

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Christopher Walmsley
Nationality: Canada
Imagine a windward leg that is either more of a reach or due to a wind shift has become a reach and competitors are still approaching it on opposite tacks..  It would no longer be considered a "beat to windward", so 18.2(a)1 would not apply, but 18.2(a)2 would still cover the situation.
Created: Today 13:28
Jim Champ
Nationality: United Kingdom
Its also not unknown for boats to misjudge or mess up a spinnaker take down so badly as to have to tack up to the mark. 
Created: Today 13:47
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Christopher Walmsley
Nationality: Canada
Reply to: 19487 - Jim Champ
Even if they misjudge their take down, it's still not a "beat to windward" so 18.1(a)1 would not exclude rule 18.  I think that if you had to tack because you misjudged your take down, then it is implicit that you are not following your "proper course", and thus 18.1(a)2 would not exclude rule 18 either.
Created: Today 13:59
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Reply to: 19487 - Jim Champ
Christopher, proper course changes moment by moment.  The boat overshooting the mark is not sailing her proper course, but once she heads back up to the mark she is sailing her proper course and once at the mark her proper course will be to tack.
Created: Today 14:13
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Jim and/or Chris ... how about putting up a couple drawings to make it clearer for Nick?
Created: Today 14:02
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Simple example is a wing mark, where one boat has fallen below the reach course and has to tack back to the mark.
Created: Today 14:08
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Christopher Walmsley
Nationality: Canada
I don't have a diagram handy, but here are some notes I have:
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  • 18.1(a)1: It does not apply between boats on opposite tacks when the proper course at the mark for one but not both of them is to tack..
    • NOTE:  this is a weird rule to solve a problem where a loophole/situation can arise. Consider the following examples:
      • When a port tack boat is beating to the mark, and a starboard tack boat is reaching to the same mark because of a wind shift to the right during the leg.  Because the starboard tack boat is now reaching and not beating, the RRS 18.1(a)1 exclusion doesn’t apply, but 18.1(a)2 exclusion will apply, and prevent RRS 18 from taking effect.
      • When there is a single mark that is a windward mark for one boat, and a reaching mark for another (different fleets or different legs of the same course).  Similar to the above situation.  That means that it’s not a beat to windward (at least not for both boats), but if one of them must tack, 18 does not apply (18.1(a)2)
Created: Today 14:17
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John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
Nicolas, the difference between 18.1(a)(1) and 18.1(a)(2) is subtle but important, and it comes down to covering different kinds of opposite-tack encounters near marks, especially when wind shifts shake things up.

Rule 18.1(a)(1)
is for classic windward beat situations: It says Rule 18 doesn't apply when boats are on opposite tacks and both are on a beat to windward. That's pretty straightforward; it's the typical situation when two boats are converging on the windward mark from opposite sides, both sailing upwind. This rule exists to avoid chaos in the zone when boats might try to claim mark-room even while still beating and tacking.

Rule 18.1(a)(2)  The "Weird Shift Clause" (as Dave Perry calls it). This rule applies when only one boat needs to tack to sail her proper course at the mark. It's not limited to boats beating to windward; it covers situations caused by wind shifts, current, or overstanding. Here's one example:

Facts:
Assuming the fleet was initially sailing upwind toward the windward mark on a beat to windward. 
  1. A significant wind shift of approximately 60° to the right occurred during the leg.
  2. Boats that had been approaching the mark on the old starboard layline were now reaching toward the mark, no longer sailing upwind or on a beat to windward.
  3. A boat on port tack (P), approaching from the left side of the course, remained on a beat to windward toward the mark.
  4. Boat P and a starboard-tack boat (S) converged at the windward mark while inside the zone.
  5. To round the mark, P had to tack, whereas S did not.

Conclusions:
1. Rule 18.1(a)(1) does not apply because neither boat was on a beat to windward.
2. Rule 18.1(a)(2) applies because only one boat (P) needed to tack to sail her proper course at the mark.
3. Rule 18 does not apply between P and S.
4. Boat P is not entitled to mark-room and must keep clear of S under Rule 10 (Opposite Tacks).

In short:
1. 18.1(a)(1): Both boats beating = Rule 18 OFF
2. 18.1(a)(2): One boat has to tack, the other doesn't = Rule 18 OFF




Created: Today 14:29
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Michael Butterfield
Is it not simply.

If one boat overstands, the mark, mistake, curent , windshift. They are not on a beat as not closehauled, but the one on port still has to tack to sail a proper course, so we have the extra paragraph.
Created: Today 18:23
Richard York
 Christopher Walmsley - I am struggling with "a beat to windward"  If I look at Case 132, Situation 3, a starboard boat has overstood, but it is still a beat to windward for them.  Say a shift happened after the start and the boats on the signal boat end laid the mark without tacking, but a pin end starter did have to tack and approached on port at the mark (i.e. crank situation 3 clockwise by 45 degrees).   In that case do we define this "beat to windward" if A) both boats were close hauled the entire leg? b) a beat to windward only if starboard had to tack at least once? c)not a beat to windward if the starboard boat actually was able to crack off toward the end of the leg?   Maybe another way to ask is "a beat to windward describe a leg of the course by the need for at least one boat to tack assuming they beat up the course in a seamanlike manner?  I understand that two fleets may approach a mark where it is a windward mark for one fleet and not for the other one....  but even in that case isn't it the fact that the leg is a beat to windward that controls the situation????  Thank You ... Dick
Created: Today 20:21
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