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Maybe I'm over thinking this, but the Mark Room, RoW, Proper Course, Exoneration thread got me wondering. What happens when proper course is not close to the mark? So take this piece of course with a passing mark (wind is from the top), never mind why. blue has luffed yellow into the zone, so RRS18 switches on, and yellow is entitled to mark room. OK, so far so good. But what is yellow's mark room? She is entitled (b) to round or pass the mark on the required side, and (c) to leave it astern. but not (a) to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it, because her proper course is not to sail close to it. Can blue continue luffing yellow, and if so how far? Can she take yellow way to starboard of the mark provided she states her intention is to eventually permit yellow to pass the mark on the required side? Could she theoretically take yellow so far that yellow would have to sail upwind to get to the mark? a) is interpreted as 'sail directly to the mark', but if a doesn't apply then what? hypoRRS18.jpg8.84 KB
At some point here, her proper course will be to sail close to the mark. Then she can sail to the mark, on either gybe, and be exonnerated till she has left the mark astern. If there are circumstances where this may not happen, then when 18 applies, on a run one is in the zone, the boat entitles to mark room may sail in a seamanlike manner (see room) to pass the mark. Once they are both out of the zone or the mark room boat leaves the mark behind, the right to mark room ceaces.
I agree with MB here. Shortly after the position in the diagram, Yellow will need to sail close to the mid-leg-mark to be on the rhumb line to the leeward mark. As such, her proper course would be to sail close to it.
However, even before that, Blue owes Yellow room to pass the mark on the required side. That means Blue must immediately start giving Yellow the space to do that; indeed a half boat-length ago.
Proper course is "the course yellow would take ... in the absence of other boats mentioned in the rule"
The definition of Mark-room is both not a rule and does not refer to other boats
Further, while 18 does mention proper course (18.1.(a)(2) & 18.4) it does not in any part of rule 18 that matters to this situation.
Therefore: I think Yellows proper course is what they are being forced to do by blue (up to the zone), and then her course is to sail to the mark (once in the zone with 18) if blue continues for press on rule 11
(what Michael is saying in a different way)
My conclusion:
Mark-room applies to yellow
Blue must give yellow mark-room to get to the mark immediately upon one of them entering the zone.
Other Answers:
Blue could luff yellow all the way to head to wind (of blue) as long as the overlap was established properly (17) and is maintained and neither enters the zone overlapped.
This is typically a losing strategy in fleet racing unless blue needed to push yellow back and could afford a drop or something like that
Chris W re:"The definition of Mark-room is both not a rule and does not refer to other boats"
Definition of mark-room is absolutely a rule.
Def: Rule (a) The rules in this book, including the Definitions, Race Signals, Introduction, preambles and the rules of relevant appendices, but not the Basic Principles or titles;
Jim, as an asym racer (J105) those DW angles don't look nutty to me at all. A 140 TWA DW is best VMG at 6kts TWS and 145 is best VMG 8-10kts. What you are showing is just another day at the office in my world.
As shown, Blue could take Yellow above the mark until they reach the rhumbline extension as drawn from the bottom mark through the passing mark. At that point, Yellow's proper course will be to sail close to the mark and she'll be entitled to room to sail to the mark on its proper side.
If Blue alters course to leeward just slightly at the zone, such that Blue will pass the mark to starboard, she has to provide Yellow room to pass between her and the mark if they remain overlapped as shown.
After Yellow leaves the mark astern, 18 will cease to apply via 18.1(b) and Blue will be free to luff again (all assuming 17 isn't an issue).
Mind you if we are considering a boat that sails hot angles and is gybing more than once down a run then potentially she will almost always have a proper course that takes her close to the mark once she is in the zone!
As we are saying that the Proper Course in the definition is dynamic, as seems reasonable from comments above, then its a rather nebulous concept. I'm now thinking OK, what are the circumstances which the test of proper course/close to the mark comes into play, since once she is in the zone it could be considered she is already close to the mark.
If there are circumstances where this may not happen, then when 18 applies, on a run one is in the zone, the boat entitles to mark room may sail in a seamanlike manner (see room) to pass the mark.
Once they are both out of the zone or the mark room boat leaves the mark behind, the right to mark room ceaces.
However, even before that, Blue owes Yellow room to pass the mark on the required side. That means Blue must immediately start giving Yellow the space to do that; indeed a half boat-length ago.
Other Answers:
Definition of mark-room is absolutely a rule.
As shown, Blue could take Yellow above the mark until they reach the rhumbline extension as drawn from the bottom mark through the passing mark. At that point, Yellow's proper course will be to sail close to the mark and she'll be entitled to room to sail to the mark on its proper side.
If Blue alters course to leeward just slightly at the zone, such that Blue will pass the mark to starboard, she has to provide Yellow room to pass between her and the mark if they remain overlapped as shown.
After Yellow leaves the mark astern, 18 will cease to apply via 18.1(b) and Blue will be free to luff again (all assuming 17 isn't an issue).
As we are saying that the Proper Course in the definition is dynamic, as seems reasonable from comments above, then its a rather nebulous concept. I'm now thinking OK, what are the circumstances which the test of proper course/close to the mark comes into play, since once she is in the zone it could be considered she is already close to the mark.