Forum: Protest Committee & Hearing Procedures

Appendix T - Arbitration

Bob Scott
If, after the arbitration meeting (T2) the arbitrator's opinion is that a boat or boats is likely to have broken a rule [T3(c)], may a boat decline all of the meeting outcomes [T4] and request a hearing or does she need to accept T4(a) and then file an appeal?
Created: Yesterday 20:27

Comments

Format:
Eric Rimkus
Nationality: United States
Final sentence has your answer…

“Unless all protests involving the incident are withdrawn, a protest hearing will be held.”
Created: Yesterday 20:39
Clark Chapin
Eric, you beat me and JP to it.
Created: Yesterday 20:41
Bob Scott
Thanks Eric and all.
Created: Yesterday 20:44
Clark Chapin
The last sentence of T4 says:
"Unless all protests involving the incident are withdrawn, a protest hearing will be held."
Created: Yesterday 20:39
John Porter
Nationality: United States
The end of T4 is clear. "Unless all protests involving the incident are withdrawn, a protest hearing will be held." 

If a boat declines to take the penalty recommended, it goes to a full hearing. If the boat takes the penalty, but the protestor doesn't withdraw, it goes to a hearing. Now, if the protestor doesn't want the lesser penalty, you can point out that a permitted outcome is that the arbitration penalty was an appropriate penalty and you cannot "force" a DSQ because you don't like it, most of these will be withdrawn. 

Of course, if things are on the border of damage or serious damage, the full committee could determine it was serious damage and the post-race penalty does not apply. 
Created: Yesterday 20:40
P
Michael Butterfield
There can be no appeal from an arbitration. Generally a voulantary penalty is taken, and the protest withdrawn, so there is no decision to appeal.

You may always refuse the arbitrators decision and ask for a hearing. 

Indeed you can accept a post race penalty, and still ask for a hearing 
Created: Yesterday 20:57
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Bob Scott  '  the arbitrator's opinion is that a boat or boats is likely to have broken a rule [T3(c)], '

That's not the correct way for an arbitrator to express their opinion.  The Arbitrator's opinion can be:

'[Based on what you have told me] I think a protest committee hearing the protest is likely to:
  • Close the hearing because the protest is invalid;
  • Penalise Boat A/Boat B/Both Boats;
  • Dismiss the protest
  • Arbitration is not appropriate and the protest will proceed to a hearing.'

It is important that the Arbitrator does not mention any rule, as this may 'tip the hand' of the protest committee and unfairly assist one or other party in preparing for the hearing.

In my experience, when the opinion is other than to penalise a boat, it is still useful to ask the parties if either party wants to take a PRP, and (except in the case of serious damage or sportsmanship concerns) ask the protestor if they want to withdraw the protest.  Having heard the other party's description of the incident a party may re-assess the strength of their case and make that decision.
Created: Yesterday 21:24
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Reply to: 20489 - John Allan
John A re: "It is important that the Arbitrator does not mention any rule, as this may 'tip the hand' of the protest committee and unfairly assist one or other party in preparing for the hearing."

In my experience, there is unclear and inconsistent guidance on your point above.   I've heard well respected experienced judges suggest that the arbitrator can/should state at least 1 unexonerated rule which they believe was broken for which the boat is likely to be penalized for... but to be careful not to go beyond that with any explanation or analysis. 

Scanning through the current WS and US Judges Manual on the topic, they do not strike your cautionary note above. 
Created: Today 13:57
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Reply to: 20489 - John Allan
I'd say citation of a rule broken is a conclusion not a decision.

I stand by the logic of my advice.

If you identify, for example, RRS 16.1 or 14 (both boats) its all too easy for a boat to tailor their evidence in a subsequent hearing.

Once the protest is withdrawn and the Arbitration Meeting closed it might be ok to discuss the relevant rules, but i generally think the parties haven't 'cooled down  enough for this to be a good idea.
Created: Today 14:06
P
Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Reply to: 20489 - John Allan
John A ... I'm not suggesting that your position is unwarranted or ill-advised .. only that "I've heard" conflicting practices from experienced judges. 
Created: Today 14:31
John Porter
Nationality: United States
Angelo, 

I helped write the US Judge Manual section on arbitration. For what it's worth, the lack of caution on giving the reasoning with the opinion was an oversight on my part. In the interest of brevity, we condensed the results into a table. While I could write 20 pages on arbitration, this needs to fit into a succinct section in the document. I think we on the judges committee are aligned on it being poor practice to explain which rules you believe are broken. 

Now, this is where judgment comes in with judges. If I recommend both people take a penalty and it's inexperienced Opti kids, I'm far more likely to explain that one boat broke a rule, but neither boat avoided contact, so my opinion is both boats will be penalized. If I'm at a Melges 24 continental championship dealing with top-tier pros, I'm far less likely to explain what rules are in play. I'm also far more likely to have the arbitrator observe the hearing to discourage the changing of testimony. Judges are at their best when they understand the event, the class, and have a relationship with the competitors to make these judgements in how they tailor the process to the event and the people in front of them. 

John
Created: Today 14:09
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
John P ... I thought I was careful in my post above  to separate a simple statement of an unexonerated rule broken ... vs "reasoning" and that sharing the analysis and reasoning is universally advised against (in my experience when taking about this with other judges). 

For instance ... 

"If this were to proceed to a hearing, in my opinion it is likely that the PC will find Boat B broke rule 14 and will be disqualified."  (End of statement). 

PS: If the USS-JC is in agreement that the example I wrote above is ill-advised, then I think it's worth going back and inserting a word-efficient sentence (as you did above) stating that. 
Created: Today 14:17
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
John P ... it actually would not even take a full, new, word-efficient sentence.  Maybe a small edit like below would make the USS-JC's view clear....

Top of page 75 ...

If the arbitrator believes that one or more boats broke a rule [and they are not exonerated], he or she should say which boats may have broken those rules (again, without stating why) [without identifying the rules by name/number or the arbitrator's reasoning,] and then list the options available to each party, including:
• Taking a Post-Race Penalty,
• Retiring, or
• Not taking a Penalty
Created: Today 17:53
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