Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Virtual Mark rounding

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David Dalli
Nationality: Malta
I was recently  involved in a race in which keel boats were required to round a coordinate a number of times. Not an actual physical Mark. This has me wondering. Given the definition of room and the meaning of touch. Is rule 18 applicable or enforceable in any practical way?
Created: Today 15:29

Comments

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John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
Did the Sailing Instructions explicitly call the coordinate a “mark” or define a rounding area/radius?

How did they define “round” the coordinate (e.g., “pass within ___ meters,” “leave to port,” “cross a line,” etc.)?

Created: Today 15:42
Satish Kumar Kanwar
David,
This is an interesting question as there is no mark on the water. I would be keen to know how the scenario pans out in such a case wrt rule 18.
Created: Today 15:49
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Jim Capron
Nationality: United States
Did the NoR and/or the SIs invoke WS Appendix WP? That appendix and the use of waypoints as marks of the course have been around for at least three rulebooks.
Created: Today 15:59
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States
Did you invoke World Sailing Development Rules & Appendices to the Racing Rules of Sailing Appendix WP - Rules for Waypoints in the NoR?

www.sailing.org/inside-world-sailing/rules-regulations/racingrules/

Created: Today 15:59
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Beau Vrolyk
Forum Moderator
I'd suggest a review of this document would be helpful.

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/OC13bRacingAroundWaypoints-%5B19446%5D.pdf
Created: Today 16:23
Eric Rimkus
Nationality: United States
As others have already commented there is a long standing WS appendix. 

It would be great if the OP could provide a copy of the regatta documents (NoR/SI) which could be quite helpful, or not. 
Created: Today 16:52
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
FWIW ... looking at Appx WP ..

WP1.2 Add new definition Waypoint:
Waypoint A geographic position on the surface of the water defined by WGS 84 latitude and longitude coordinates expressed in degrees decimal minutes (DDM).

WP1.3 The definition Zone is changed to:
Zone The area around a mark within a distance of three hull lengths of the boat nearer to it. The area of the zone at a mark that is a waypoint may be changed in the notice of race or sailing instructions. A boat is in the zone when any part of her hull is in
the zone.

The Appx does not define a min decimal-depth (sig-fig) for WGS84 location.  Therefore, the size of the location, depends upon the resolution.  
Created: Today 17:44
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States
Just like using a regular mark! The clear ahead boat hails "no room" well before they reach the zone!
Created: Today 18:13
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Created: Today 18:30
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Jim Capron
Nationality: United States
AG said: "Therefore, the size of the location, depends upon the resolution." I disagree. The waypoint 38 58N 76 28W is a dot on the surface of the water and is the same "size" as the waypoint 38 58.002N 76 28.005W. The zone is (likely) a 3 boat lengths circle around either of those dots.
Created: Today 18:55
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Jim C ... look at the chart that I posted. A zero-decimal location has a resolution of >100km.  Based on the chart I posted, for the purposes of being able to resolve 3 BL's, a min on 5 decimal places should be described. 

Since we have a relative measure in the zone of 3 BL's, the zone's location needs to be specified to something substantially less than 1 BL for it to be usefully determined. 
Created: Today 19:02
Philip Hubbell
App WP does not answer the very good question.
Created: Today 18:46
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David Dalli
Nationality: Malta
The SI stated under Marks:
The Mark 3 will  be the coordinate....
APP WP was not invoked. I am happy that at least this sorts out the issue of wether it is possible to touch a coordinate. There is still the matter of given that  GPS location is accurate to between 2-8 m 95% of the time ( according to WS Judges Manual). How can one decide if room was given or when the zone was reached. 
Created: Today 19:06
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