what is the correct time and distance for oposite tack boat start and complete Tack and Gybe, not to break Part 2 rules.
- A is on PT approaching B who is on ST. (Out of zone)
- A manoeuvres (Gybes or tacks) at such a time and in such a distance that ends straight ahead of B.
- B never manoeuvred up or down to avoid A, but ended up at behind A so close but not close enough to overlap A at end of A's manoeuvre.
- One opinion claims that A (PT boat) should have finished her manoeuvred with 2 boats lenght distance between her and B as a ST (right of way boat) .
- Another opinion states that: A had manoeuvred in such a manner that at end of the manoeuvre, B was on As WW or LW side in over lap position, then the manoeuvre was late and A (as PT boat) fauled (broke part 2) ST boat. But as A's manoeuvre was timely and at right distance that B was not close enough catch up and able to overlap WW or LW side of A - then - No- faul by A.
any comments? In fleets with 50 one design J70 or similar boats.
Created: 20-Sep-24 11:44
This is an old conundrum, which I always face by asking parties, in protest hearing, how they _felt_ about the manouver. Were you afraid at some point? Did any crew fear for his/her life? And the obvious questions for the ROW boat: Did you take evasive actions? If you would have acted differently, what would have happened?
Difficult call always, as as I said, depends a lot on the boats and conditions. What the decision should _not_ be about is about the crew experience: pros and beginners face the same rules and same conditions, their expertise is not no favor one decision over the other.
BTW: this really becomes a challenge if incident involves different boats in a mixed regatta.... think a fast catamaran vs a slow monohull... probably both skippers will misjudge other's behaviour n the water.
PT must keep clear of ST until PT is on a close-hauled, starboard tack course. (Rules 10 and 13).
When PT assumes her starboard tack course, Rule 15 applies and ST must keep clear (Rules 12 and possibly 11). ST need not take avoiding action until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room.
Whether or not PT breaks Rule10, 13 or15 depends a lot on the types of boats and conditions and cannot be assigned a fixed distance (2 boat lengths in your example). It has more to do with the time that PT gives ST to respond. (Two J/70s at an upwind speed closing speed of about 3 kts = 1.52 m/s = ~ 5 sec/boat length. 10 seconds is a very long time.)
In general, though - if ST did not take avoiding action until after PT completed her tack and there was no contact, then both have complied with the rules and there is no foul.
It is relatively easy to judge if room to keep clear has been given if you are sitting in an umpire boat. I strongly believe that umpires are experienced enough sailors to recognise one of those moment's when you hold your breath and wait for the collision... It is more difficult in the protest room.
I also agree with Gordon that P may not force S into an unseamanlike maneuver to keep clear, but in such a maneuverable boat as a J70, a fairly abrupt change of course will likely still be perfectly seamanlike in most circumstances. In IODs or classic yachts, not so much...
This is also a good place to have a look at Case 50. It says that PC decisions about protests over situations like this should hinge on whether the ROW boat has “a genuine and reasonable apprehension of collision” and acts to avoid it. As Gordon notes, this is easier to be sure of in an umpire boat than in a protest room, but it’s not impossible in the latter either (that’s why they pay us the big money! 😁)
I am always amazed when a competitor believes they have a claim to room and that right to room was somehow violated, when no rule supports the claim. However, I think is is a good candidate to be resolved by arbitration.
It is certainly true that the outcome of the maneuvers will bear on whether or not they are seen as having been reasonable or seamanlike.
Given this omission, I believe the key way to approach this is by talking about space & time given to the ROW boat. This approach has always helped me move away opinions and to clarify facts.
Definitions:
Room The space a boat needs in the existing conditions, including space to comply with her obligations under the rules of Part 2 and rule 31, while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlike way.
CASE 103
The phrase ‘seamanlike way’ in the definition Room refers to boat-handling that can reasonably be expected from a competent, but not expert, crew of the appropriate number for the boat.
Seems to me this is the crux of the matter. If B didn't change course and contact didn't occur, A kept clear.
Other examples (not specific to this scenario):
WS Case 21: "When a right-of-way boat is obligated to give mark-room to a boat overlapped inside of her, there is no maximum or minimum amount of space that she must give. The amount of space that she must give depends significantly on the existing conditions including wind and sea conditions, the speed of the inside boat, the sails she has set and her design characteristics."
WS Case 134: A boat's proper course at any moment depends on the existing conditions. Some of those conditions are the wind strength and direction, the pattern of gusts and lulls in the wind, the waves, the current, and the physical characteristics of the boat's hull and equipment, including the sails she is using."
Port tack boat has to "keep clear". First for RRS 10, then for RRS 13 if taking, and if she ends up overlapped WW, for RRS 11, or, if overlapped downwind, "room" for RRS 15.
"Keep clear" and "room" are rather well described in the "Definitions", And applies to all boats, in all conditions.
Of course different boats and different conditions will makes different speed, distance, timing etc, to match the requirements of "Keep clear" and "room" , but in principle, the Keep clear and room are, well, rather "clear"