I don't know the answer your question but I believe that only rule 14 applies.  I am not sure why you say it doesn't help.  The point of the rules is to help keep boats from hitting each other and in this case we only have rule 14. Both boats are obligated to avoid contact if reasonably possible.

Al, there are a couple options:

Peter

Any club or other organization affiliated with US Sailing can ask for a rules interpretation.  See Appendix R2.4.

Al,
As the 2 boats didn't appear suddenly, we need a previous position.
In my opinion, at position 1, Yellow looks to be the leeward boat. Last certaincy, Blue has to keep clear

Rule 14 applies and both boats have to avoid contact. The rules don´t work like we wish all the time. But I believe it is very clear. There are many other situations where both boats have obligations.

I think rules 11 and 16 are germane. 11 does not speak of sides, just that a windward boat keels clear of a leeward boat. White is clearly windward leading up to the situation in the diagram. There comes a point when she acquires right of way by becoming leeward at which point she must give yellow room to keep clear. I do not think white acquires ROW  as a result of yellow's action but we could argue about that. 

Thank you Peter and John.

Craig and Ricardo, rule 14 does indeed apply here, as it does in many situations. We still clarify those situations with cases, though. 

Loic,
Windward and leeward are defined based on which side of the boat the other boat is on.  It does not refer to their relative position, upwind or downwind, from each other.  In this case at position 1, the boats are overlapped and on the leeward side of the extension of the other boat's centerline, i.e. the leeward side of the boat.  RRS 11 applies and the situation is what was discussed before.  Both boat are on the leeward side of the other.  Neither boat meets the definition of a windward boat therefore neither boat is required to keep clear uner RRS 11.

Thank you Peter and John.

Craig and Ricardo:

Rule 14 does indeed apply here, as it does in many situations. We still clarify those situations with cases, though. 

Also, Rule 14 states a "right of a way boat doesn't need to act to avoid contact until it's clear that the other boat isn't keeping clear". But who is the right of way boat here? (That's a rhetorical question to state that rule 14 basically takes us back to square one.)

Charles and Loic, the problem with applying Rule 11 here is that the two boats are to leeward of each other. Blue is on Yellow's leeward side. Yellow is on Blue's leeward side since, "when sailing by the lee, her leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies", according to the definition.

Charles, I agree that Rule 16 holds here, specifically 16.1: "when a right of way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear". Blue would be wrong to bear away into Yellow. The problem is when Blue has been on a steady course for some period of time... and how long that period of time is (Two seconds? 10 seconds? Longer?).  

Match Racing Call B10 might help with this situation. Whilst not authoritative outside match racing it gives some guidance on how to find an answer. Loic was on the money.

 

Thanks Craig, but the boat trajectories are very different in Match Racing Call B10. If you look at Loic's diagram above, Yellow can avoid contact by heading up or tacking onto port. 

Very true Al but in position 1 why would yellow consider heading up or tacking on to port, it's clear blue is a keep clear windward boat and until there is certainty that blue isn't a keep clear boat then she should keep clear. Umpires would penalise blue 100% of the time in that situation and I think you have a resolution to your original question. Most situations are not a snapshot but carry a history with them from which a solution can be found. Avoiding contact though is a whole different discussion.

Craig, actually, no, it's clear that Blue is a keep clear windward boat. The problem is that Blue is to leeward of Yellow, and Yellow is to leeward of Blue. So, they're both leeward boats and both windward boats. This is due to the definition of leeward, below:

Boat overlapped on same tack.
Rule 11 apply, period.
White boat (winward) have to keep clear of (yellow)- White broke 11 and 14.
End of the story

I'll start by saying I'm not a Laser sailor so don't know how it happens in the boat.  But I'd take Craig's lead and look to match racing.  A boat on one leg shall not interfere with a boat sailing another leg.  In match racing we will look at Yellow to make sure she doesn't stray from her proper couse, which should be as close ot close hauled as she can be, while sailing up wind.
I'll happily take opinion from those who have sailed, or even watched more Laser racing than I have...  However, I'm not yet convinced that sailing at 45 degress to the true wind is Blue's proper course, and she may, therefore be sailing a course that could be interpreted as to interfere with Yellow.  I wait to hear from those with greater experience.

I'll start by saying I'm not a Laser sailor so don't know how it happens in the boat.  But I'd take Craig's lead and look to match racing.  A boat on one leg shall not interfere with a boat sailing another leg.  In match racing we will look at Yellow to make sure she doesn't stray from her proper couse, which should be as close ot close hauled as she can be, while sailing up wind.
I'll happily take opinion from those who have sailed, or even watched more Laser racing than I have...  However, I'm not yet convinced that sailing at 45 degress to the true wind is Blue's proper course, and she may, therefore be sailing a course that could be interpreted as to interfere with Yellow.  I wait to hear from those with greater experience.
Having now reread Al's point about the definition, Blue is quite clearly the keep clear boat because Yellow's course takes her to Blue's leeward side.  Only at the point that the perpendiculars of the boats' bows overlap do both boats become the leeward boat and the keep clear boat.  Before that point Blue was the keep clear boat, and when tha situation changed Blue had not given Yellow room to keep clear.

Hi Ant,

No worries about not being familiar with Lasers. Their downwind technique is very different than sloops, where you can't effectively sail by the lee. Our sport is pretty broad, with many class-specific nuances. (I have zero clue about foiling boats, for instance.)

To understand how Lasers are sailed at the top levels downwind, it might be worth looking at around 04:17 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiBe2N8YuP8 ... it's by one of the leading Laser sailing coaches, who coach at the Olympic level. Sailing at 45 degrees below DDW to stay on a wave by keeping the bow from burying is not at all unusual. It's also not unusual to steer at 45 degrees below DDW to quickly pull the apparent forward to around 250 degrees or so and quickly get out of the boat air of the boats converging at the windward mark.

As for your comment that Blue is keep clear boat: Blue is on Yellow's leeward side, so that argues that Yellow is keep clear. 

The problem is that there's a circular definition in the rules that hasn't been resolved. Hence the original request in this post: how to get clarification on this situation? (Which Peter and John answered.)

We need to make sure we are using the correct terminology.  People are confusing upwind and downwind with windward and leeward.  A boat is upwind if it is on a higher ladder rung than the other boat and downwind if it is on a lower ladder rung.  This is relative to the wind direction, i.e. ladder rungs are perpendicular to the true wind and increasing as you get closer to the source of the wind, and not the centerline of the boats.
Windward and leeward are terms that have specific definitions in the rules and are relative to the centerlines of the boats and their extensions.  Boats have windward and leeward sides.  Which is which is based on the RRS definitions.
Note that we are actually doing ourselves a disservice by talking about windward/leeward courses as they should properly be called upwind/downwind courses.  We are inviting the kind of confusion that I am seeing here.
Neither boat is clear astern of the other and thus meet the definition of overlapped.
In the original diagram neither boat is upwind or downwind of the other.  Both boats are on the leeward side of the other.  As stipulated, both boats have been on a straight line course for all time, Blue is NEVER on the windward side of Yellow.  RRS 11 applies and as neither boat is a windward boat neither is required to keep clear.

The situation would be clearer if the rules instead defined leeward side, windward side, leeward boat, and windward boat, thus leaving leeward and windward to common dictionary use.

I'm not sure what the confusion is about this. It is a common question raised as a hypothetical scenario of what happens when neither boat has right of way, and is frequently a question in MNA's national judge exams. The point is that rules 10, 11, 12, 13, 15 and 16 don't apply. The answer to the scenario will depend on what further facts are given in the question, but it normally comes down to rule 14 and possibly (but more rarely) a rule in Part 2D such as 24.2.

In real life, in most instances where is Laser is sailing by the lee to that extent, she will be surfing. Questions about course changes she made to catch a wave may be useful to see whether it was reasonably possible for both boats to have avoided contact. As some people have mentioned, questions to see whether the boats were sailing their proper course may be useful as well.

Is the proper interpretation that neither boat has ROW, or that both boats have ROW? Since neither is required by any rule to keep clear of the other I'd tend to say both boats have ROW.

So they both break 14, but if they're both ROW (and no damage or injury) they're both exonerated by 14(b). 

If one or both are found to be not sailing their proper courses then 24.2 and no exoneration.

Tim, re: “Is the proper interpretation that neither boat has ROW, or that both boats have ROW? ”

To determine a ROW boat, you must first determine which boat is to keep-clear. (see Preamble Part 2A)

Both boats are on same tack, overlapped. Rule 11 is determinant. Rule 11 states the Windward boat shall keep-clear, but neither boat is Windward of the other.

Therefore neither boat is required to keep clear of the other under any Part 2 Section A rule, thus neither boat has ROW.  Since there is no ROW,  rules 15 and 16 do not apply either.  

It boils down to Rule 14 for both, unless a rule of Part 2D applies. 

sorry to insist, but...

To me, there are NO boats both ROW, there are NO boats both one downwind to the other. 

It'a a plain RRS 11

To make it a little complicated, see definition of Overlap and Leeward and windward, and read RRS 11

To make it simple, imagine the bow of white boat pointing right (i.e. your left), keeping the sail  in the same position. Both Boats are now pointing at your left.
Is it clear now RRS 11? 
With the bow pointing at your right, as pictured now, is the same thing, no change, same overlap, same rule. 

To make it logic: what the yellow boat was supposed to do ? She has no way out. If she luffs, she might get rammed on her left side and sink; if she bear, se may be rammed on her right side and sink. White can either luff or  jibe veeeery easly. So, by logic,  is the white boat that should keep clear, because is the only one that can do something. For, and by,  what rules? See point above.  

The contact happen because white did not keep clear BEFORE that position. Now in this particular position (the contact), starting brainstorming on windward or leeward, personally, well,  i miss the practical point. White DSQ for RRS 11 and 14. Yellow could not avoid contact, no 14 also in case of damage. And ahead with prize giving, and the pizza.

Thanks Angelo, that makes sense.

While I understand this is not in the rules, so I don't need a response - I was taught that the upwind boat in this situation (sailing by the lee) always stays clear of the downwind boat on starboard tack.
Rationale is that technically the point of sail is really port gybe (yes I know what the rules say about what side is called leeward due to mainsail), and therefore, the boat sailing by the lee is in the precarious position if it's boom hits the boat on the beat to windward.
My question is What would Dave Perry say?? I'm attending his rules seminar starting this week and will ask it for sure.

I'd say the boat sailing downwind by the lee has better options for avoiding contact. She can easily come right, turning away from the upwind boat. Upwind boat (assuming close hauled) would either have to luff or bear away and try to cross the downwind boat's bow. So although the rules don't require it I think it's best if the boat by the lee takes the initiative. 

Peter van Muyden -- thank you. Looks like this is the page with details on how to get clarification on rules:

https://www.sailing.org/raceofficials/qandaservice/index.php

If there's a better method, please let me know.

So I just finished a really great online Advanced Judge Seminar and the opinion offered by those much more experienced than me was (if I understood them correctly) that both were ROW boats by the rules, the rule both broke was 14 but both would be exonerated uner 43.1(a) unless damage and it was a very small hole in the rules that didn't warrant monkeying with the rules. 
I still submit that the upwind boat sailing by the lee downwind should stay clear as an unwritten rule.