Exploring “new” last sentence in rule 18.1.
49ers, choppy sea, 12 knots.
Just before position 3 (let me say, position 3-), GREEN leaves the zone.
So,
- has GREEN been given mark-room by both YELLOW and BLUE in 3- ?
- If so, does rule 18 no longer apply in 3- ?
- If so, does rule 18 no longer apply in 3, 4 and 5 too?
- If so, is 18.2(a) off from 3- onwards ?
At Pos. 3 Green has chosen to go wide and outside of Blue and Yellow so cannot be given Mark room.
At Pos. 3 Green is outside the zone so 18 is off in respect to her but still applies to Blue and Yellow.
At Pos. 4-5 18 is back on as the boats have yet to clear the mark.
At Pos. 5 Blue is clearing the mark and has been Mark room by Yellow so 18 is off for her but Green has not given Yellow room so is in force on them. Green breaks 18.2b
The question to green, did you go outside the Zone?
at position 5 all boats have had the mark room to which they were entitled and now 18 is off.
At 5 between yellow and green it is a RRS 15 and
16 matter.
Because this is a gate, 18.4 does not limit Green’s course before she gybes.
At position #3,
Between position #4 - #5 ...
More facts would be needed, but it appears that Green being faster than Yellow, changes course toward while overtaking Yellow, but does not give Yellow opportunity to keep-clear.
DSQ Green for breaking 16.1 (or maybe 15) and 14.
Assume that this is not a gate, but a single rounding-mark-#1 and that Green and Blue are still overlapped at position #2-1/2 just before Green leaves the zone.
Does Green break 18.4 vs Blue at position #2-1/2?
Does Green break 18.4 vs Yellow at position #2+ assuming Green passes clear ahead of Yellow at #2-1/4?
Does the application of 18.4 Green vs Blue and 18.4 Green vs Yellow make the applicability of the last sentence of 18.1 clearer?
When Green enters the zone she is overlapped inside boat and entitled to mark-room under 18.2b.
Green does not sail to the mark but holds her course then bears away and gybes more than 3 boat lengths from the mark.
At 3, Green has left the zone and her entitlement to mark-room under 18.2b ceases (see rule 18.2d)
However, Rule 18 still applies as all three boats are required to leave the mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone.
All 3 boats are now overlapped. Green is on the outside and must give mark-room to Yellow and Blue.
However, when Yellow entered the zone she was overlapped inside Blue, and is entitled to mark-room. Yellow's mark-room included, at that time, room to comply with her obligation to give Green mark-room (see Defn. Room). As a result, Yellow cannot sail directly to the mark. Blue gives Yellow room to give mark-room to Green
Yellow gives mark-room to Green, which Green does not use. Yellow passes astern of Green and is then free to luff up to round the mark, which she does. Blue gives Yellow room to round the mark and sail the course without touching the mark.
As Yellow reaches a close hauled course, there is contact between her leeward starboard side and the windward port side of Green.
Conclusion:
Yellow, overlapped to windward, did not keep clear of Green and broke rule 11.
Green overlapped on the outside did not give mark-room to Yellowand broke rule 18.2a
Yellow, sailing within the mark-room to which she was entitled and is exonerated under rule 43.1b.
Joep - I am not convinced that Blue broke a rule.
At 2 Yellow cannot bear away any earlier because she has to give room to Green. Yellow then manages to pass astern of Green, and begins to gybe, leaving a 1.5 BL gap between her and the mark. Yellow continues her turn luffing to close-hauled, and is still 1.5 BL from the mark when she reaches close-hauled. Blue passes astern of Yellow and sails into the gap that opened up because Yellow was giving Green mark-room, as she was required to do.
There is no indication on the diagram that Yellow was prevented by Blue from luffing faster than she did, nor that there was any reason for her to sail above close-hauled. As I understand it Blue did not prevent Yellow from sailing to the mark. Neither did Blue prevent Yellow from rounding the mark without touching it.
I would argue that space was made available to Blue and she took advantage of the space without breaking a rule. Case 63 is relevant.
Green is sailing higher at that precise moment because she started to round up earlier.
But as you say, correctly, we would need a hearing to settle this. However, at least this discussion allowed me to read Case 63 again.
I have a point !!
At position #4, is Green an OBSTRUCTION for B & Y ?
If YES, does rule 19 applie ?
Cheers !!!
As for green, he has left the zone, losing his right to space in the mark and upon re-entering he must give space in the mark to both for 18. 2 a, in turn green has the right of way for 11. Green gives the mark space to yellow. Green between four and five has maintained its course without violating 16, so the contact is produced by the change of course from yellow that is not kept separated as it should by 11, also it is not navigating within its space at the mark so he is not exonerated for 21.
Yellow must penalize according to 44.
This is a competitor's point of view.
En cuanto a verde a salido de la zona perdiendo su derecho a espacio en la marca y al volver a ingresar debe dar espacio en la marca a ambos por 18. 2 a, a su vez verde tiene derecho de paso por 11 . Verde da el espacio en la marca a amarillo. Verde entre cuatro y cinco a mantenido su rumbo sin violar 16, por lo que el contacto se produce por el cambio de rumbo de amarillo que no se mantiene separado como debe por 11, ademas no esta navegando dentro de su espacio en la marca por lo que no es absuelto por 21
Amarillo debe penalizar segun 44.
Es el punto de vista de un competidor.
To answer Bolla's question, I think mark-room can only be "given" after the mark has been rounded. In any previous situation, mark-room is still something a boat needs (even if it is not owed) by all parties. Another way to make the case is, you're in first by a several lengths; you need mark-room from the entire fleet. It has not "been given" until you finish rounding the mark, even though all the other boats are able to so without changing their course.
These are my opinions, and I don't have any cases to back them up with.
Now that it is moved to 18.1, all of rule 18 ceases to apply once mark-room is given, not just 18.2(b) and 18.2(c).
I have corrected my error.
Gordon
Well, try to cope with the question.
Back to your first question about last sentence of 18.1, i would have replied: no, because at pos 3 "mark room" has not been given, see "definition" of "mark room", point b). Beside any other considerations given, that i red and approve, specially the RRS 15 at pos.5