In PHRF (or ORC), what is a rational time limit for a race (e.g., DSQ if >30 min after the 1st place boat)?
Consider a scenario where a boat with a relatively large handicap finished 35 minutes behind the first finisher, but would place very near in corrected time.
Do you use time limits and how do you account for such an outcome? Is there any pertinent published guidance?
One can't set a single number as races can last from 30min to 3hours or more, even for the leader.
Time Limits
a. The first warning signal of the day must occur no later than 1.5 hours after the scheduled first
2026 Frostbite Series warning or all races for that day shall be abandoned (no more racing this day).
b. A race (for a fleet) shall be abandoned when no boat in that fleet completes the leg to the first
mark within 1 hour. A race (for a fleet) shall be abandoned when the first boat in that fleet fails to
finish within 3 hours after the start signal for that fleet.
c. Any boat in a race, failing to finish within 45 min after the first boat in her fleet has finished, shall be scored DNF without a hearing. This changes RRS 35, A5.1 and A5.2.
Let's say the SI's state the TL is 30min after the first finisher. Let's examine 3 boats in a large fleet. It's a 20nm race.
Lightning has a PHRF rating of 60
Speedy has a PHRF rating of 120
Droopy has a PHRF rating of 180
Lightning crosses first.
Speedy +25min
Droopy +39min
Lightning is awarded 1st and Speedy is awarded 2nd place, but Droopy would have corrected over both Lightning and Speedy had she not been TLE'd from the SI's.
Question: Given the large PHRF-spread in the fleet and the length of the course, can it be an improper action by the RC to set too tight of a TL?
Further Question:
What if the RC abandons the race under R32.1 (d) as being unfair to Droopy? Is that an improper action effecting Lightning and Speedy?
edited note re Angelo reply to Jim.
I agree with Angelo's comment, there is unfairness on entering an event and not knowing the rules.
The time limit referred to in the sailing instructions is a reference to the time the first boat must finish by under R35. If the first boat does finish in time, all other boats must be given a finish time. This Time limit may be just in the SIs and not the NOR. However an additional time limit imposing a limit on subsequent boats is a change to rule 35 and therefore must be published in the NOR.
If it is in the NOR, it is fairer to Droopy but I acknowledge Angelo's point that Droopy may not know who else is entering.
That's a pretty broad and definitive conclusion. We might want to dig in on that a bit.
I've had many R4R's that were based upon errors written into the race docs. RRS 63.5(c) seemingly directly contemplates such errors in the form of "conflicts".
In another realm, we've seen NOR's and SI's published which themselves were against the rules as written.
Not sure just because something is in the race docs, a boat accepts them to the point that they waive their right to claim that they are in error.
Can the NOR (or SIs) change racing rules in such a way that makes racing unfair? I hope the answers no but I suspect its not.
Does improper mean slightly more than "Unfair"? like "dishonest" "wrong" "not good manners"?
Back to your question, any slower boat is inherently disadvantaged (unfairly) in a handicap race with a time limit additional to R35 because it has a higher probability of getting DNF than faster boats. So, I agree its unfair, i'm not sure its improper (if the NOR and SIs comply with RRS)
As PRO, my goal has been to see that this never happens because I've shortened course or abandoned the race first!
1. Setting a time limit that requires the slowest boat to have a corrected time way faster than the corrected time of the fastest boat to avoid TLE is inherently unfair. The SIs need to take into account the difference in speed of the fastest (first finisher?) and slowest boats in a fleet and set the time limit to allow the slowest boat to at least place before TLE.
2. The RC needs to monitor the progress of the fleet and be prepared to either shorten course or abandon if it looks like the race is running too long to allow the slowest boats with a chance of placing to avoid TLE.
3. Being a dinghy club, we run multiple races in a day and try to avoid races taking too long by setting time limits then shortening course when necessary. We also often use T/T corrected lap times instead of corrected race times to allow both the cats (circa PY 650) and the slowest monohulls (circa PY1500) to have decent length races without having to wait for the slow boats to do the same number of laps as the fast cats. That works for "round the cans" races, but obviously more of a challenge for the big boys distance races.
4. Detailed planning ahead saves a lot of anguish and frustration!
5. If all else fails - use a pursuit race format.... :o)
Massive thread drift, but the same problem exists in a pursuit race. for example: If you're sailing in an area with a consistently building wind speed, then the fast boat sail in conditions that are more favorable to them. (EG: San Francisco Bay)
If you sail in an area where there is a consistently declining wind speed during the race, then the little boats get an advantage, and the big boats end up slatting. (EG: Long Island sound, at least in my experience.)
I have tried dividing the handicap advantage in half, applying 50% of the correction to the start. This gets the starting window smaller and puts the boats closer together. Competitors seem to find this more fun. Then I apply the other 50% of the correction to the finish, which seems to cut the problem above in half.
Given unpredictability in windspeed, current on SF Bay, and sailing skill, this has resulted in some spectacularly close finishes. Big hit with the sailors.
To my mind its clearly unfair to TLE a boat that could have corrected above any finisher, but I think the consensus was that provided the time limit is clearly posted in NOR then it doesn't reach the bar of being an improper action.
My own opinion is that if an RC must use time limits in handicap races then the rest of their race management as regards shortening course etc etc needs to be very good indeed, or/and the time limit very generous.
Of course, a boat entering has no idea how low the fastest boat's handicap will be, as Lightning could have entered after Droopy.
Also, according the Appx J2.1(6), the TL's are in the SI's, which might not be avail until after most boats have entered.
However, most club racing likely uses some form of elapsed-time correction. One fair method is to apply time corrections to all boats after the first boat has finished.
Here is my attempt to explain it. In the case of the 30 minutes limit:
You might find that boats with a very low (fast) ratings could be already beyond the time limit set by the winning boat.